X-Message-Number: 5551 From: Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 12:38:02 -0500 Subject: misc. 1. Storage of archives: Cryonics Institute will store any reasonable amount of patient archives, and if desired (if the member does not want total confidentiality) will refresh the items periodically. I.e., we will e.g. read printed material to make sure it is still legible, and if it starts to degrade will print out new copies; same for photos, films, etc. No extra charge. The archives are stored in the same building as the patients. Obviously, if the building is destroyed, or the organization collapses, in such a manner that the patients are lost, then the fate of the archives will not matter. Obviously again, we do not expect any such calamity, but will be permanently alert to possible threats. 2. Manipulation of markets: The typical large market involves many buyers & sellers of securities and derivatives, but not necessarily many actual suppliers or consumers of goods/services. Information is usually available quickly to everyone, and regulatory agencies try to prevent fraudulent or grossly unfair practices. Manipulation is certainly possible at the producer/consumer level, if the number of these is small, e.g. airplane manufacturers/airlines, or local coal mines/local steel mills. Securities manipulation usually is restricted to exploitation of insider information (illegal) or to spreading of false rumors (also illegal). It is generally NOT possible for large investors or traders to manipulate securities markets, and in fact the opposite is true--the small investor has the advantage, because his bids or offers do not affect prices, whereas a large investor drives up prices appreciably every time he tries to accumulate something, or drives prices down whenever he tries to unload. 3. The Malthusian discussion (Metzger, Merel et al) does have some relevance to cryonics, even in the short term, because a fair number of people include such questions in their ostensible ethical reservations about cryonics. (Their ostensible reasons are not usually their real reasons, but it nevertheless helps to deflate these, since then they may be forced to face the central point--that it's hard to enjoy life when you're dead.) I think Metzger is right in saying that food supply/demand cannot change rapidly on a global basis. Except locally--usually associated with politics or war or plagues or weather anomalies--there can hardly be rapid changes in supply of arable land or in production technology. Therefore adjustments can be made on a gradual basis. Adjustments--with or without immortality, with or without cryonics--must include birth control, and the world's women will eventually insist on it anyway. U.S. Catholics mostly pay no attention to the Pope's admonitions in this area, and the Latin Americans will learn also; eventually the Muslim women will defy the Mullahs too. Although I am not a Libertarian, a "hard-hearted" ("tough love?") approach to the plight of the unfortunate may be the kindest in the long run, as the Libertarians believe. If outsiders constantly rescue or subsidize the starving (there are none in America) or the poor, these conditions will tend to continue or repeat, so that total suffering will INCREASE. If communities of the chronically poor (along with those close to them through shared ethnicity or religion etc) are forced to handle their own problems, then lessons may be learned and better habits acquired. The sooner such policies are applied, the less pain. Further, if the more fortunate people or countries habitually rescue and subsidize the poor, the numerical increase of the dependent may put the rest of us at risk in many ways. In the western countries they could outvote us and undermine governmental responsibility; in fact, this is an ongoing trend which is proving very hard to reverse or even slow down. So far we have been partly saved from the dangers of one-person-one-vote by other advantages of the "haves"--but the leaders or spokespeople of the "have-nots" are often very skilled and talented in politics ("rabble-rousing") and must be feared. Long term self-interest demands the Golden Rule--or some approximation thereof--because immortals need the friendship, or at least the respect, of their neighbors, as well as the maintenance of quality in the physical environment. And we recognize that large numbers of the "have-nots" are just as good people as we are, and sometimes better, and cast in their lot only by accident (as are we all). In whatever degree, we cannot help but feel their pain and wish to alleviate it. But none of this implies that we have a duty in all circumstances to rescue everyone from their problems, whether of their own making or not. Gauging the probable internal and external effects of policies is a difficult and troublesome process, but judgments should finally be made in a cool and mature manner and not on the basis of superficial feel-good or mindless slogans. It is not physically possible to be motivated by anything other than self interest. The major problem in life--one might even say the only problem--is figuring out first what defines self interest (basically feel-good, but with many subtleties and perplexities), and then what policies are likely to promote it. Rotsa ruck. Robert Ettinger Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=5551