X-Message-Number: 5778
Subject: Pre-death suspension
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 11:49:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Brad Templeton <>

> E.g., it would be one thing to freeze someone with little or no history or
> background of cryonics involvement; it would be another to freeze someone in
> my family.

Possibly, but the public would not know your history.
> 	I suspect he may not have that choice.  If freezing before legal death

> becomes legal, I doubt that there will be *any* cryonics organization that 
> *not* offer this service. I personally don't know of anyone in the cryonics

Actually, I think I won't have the choice because cryonics will become
illegal if anybody attempts this.  Did Mrs. Kent teach you nothing?
The public -- and the legal officials, do not think in a way we would
consider "rational" in this matter.

> 	Certainly, Brad Templeton will be able to choose to be frozen after legal

> death after it is legal to freeze patients *before* legal death, but he may 

Of course I want the best suspension for myself.  However, that is quite
selfish of me, and selfish of anybody else to seek pre-death suspension
at the serious risk of getting further suspensions made illegal.

> Although I certainly won't knock the virtues of realpolitik, there comes
> a time when you have to stand up for what you believe in.   

What you believe in is getting suspended.  I don't believe that people should
take risks that will cause that to become illegal, as pre-death suspension
is very likely to do in my opinion.

Look at the facts:

	a) In B.C, cryonics is already illegal under the thought that it
	   sells a false hope, and is thus a fraud, even in spite of
	   all the disclaimers put into cryonics contracts

	b) People regularly accuse cryonics organizations of being snake
	   oil salesmen, selling a false hope either for the money or,
	   once they learn that nobody in cryonics is making
	   money, the power trip.
	c) In current right to die cases the motives of the doctors and
	   others involved not just in assisting the suicide but in
	   convincing or not convincing the patient to consider suicide
	   are examined strongly.  All involved take extreme care to
	   display what most people would consider the purist of motives.
	   The doctors certainly waive any fees to my understanding.

	   Even in spite of that the public is divided on the issue,
	   suspicious or hateful of those involved.   They barely vote
	   for the right to die initiatives and they get reversed.

Now the public will perceive Cryonics as con game that is killing people,
making them believe, in their desperation that they have a hope of life
after death if they just hand over $50,000 and let the cryonicists kill
them a little ahead of time (better chance of revival) and cut their head
off to freeze it.    Are you out of your skulls?  You don't think cryonics
will avoid banning if the public gets that perception?   People have
that perception *now*, go read sci.cryonics or other sources.  Don't tell
me you haven't run into it yourself.   You can usually convince people
it's not a con-game by showing them the salaries of the Alcor staff or
the fact that some staff have been suspended themselves, but that takes
work.  You can't do that for the whole public.

Now, what you're saying is that if, like Bob, you wrote a book on Cryonics
years ago, then nobody is going to be accused of conning you into Cryonics.
Probably.  You might convince me that we could get away with pre-death
suspension on people who signed up for Cryonics well before there was any
sign of terminal illness.  (The public won't believe the cryonics choice
was rational if it was done once ill.)
THe public does not trust the ill to make the choice to die even now, simply
to avoid a slow, lingering painful death.  The public will not trust the
ill to make the choice to spend money on what the public certainly views
as a quack scheme that encourages premature death.

That's why my pulling support from a cryonics org after they do this is
rather moot, there will indeed be nowhere to go after this starts
happening.  I need to say this in advance to make it happen.  In addition,
whoever suspends me is going to have a few million of my dollars in trust,
and if I can write up the trust to pull that money away if they do nutty
stunts like this, I will.

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