X-Message-Number: 5778 Subject: Pre-death suspension Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 11:49:35 -0800 (PST) From: Brad Templeton <> > E.g., it would be one thing to freeze someone with little or no history or > background of cryonics involvement; it would be another to freeze someone in > my family. Possibly, but the public would not know your history. > > I suspect he may not have that choice. If freezing before legal death > becomes legal, I doubt that there will be *any* cryonics organization that will > *not* offer this service. I personally don't know of anyone in the cryonics Actually, I think I won't have the choice because cryonics will become illegal if anybody attempts this. Did Mrs. Kent teach you nothing? The public -- and the legal officials, do not think in a way we would consider "rational" in this matter. > Certainly, Brad Templeton will be able to choose to be frozen after legal > death after it is legal to freeze patients *before* legal death, but he may not Of course I want the best suspension for myself. However, that is quite selfish of me, and selfish of anybody else to seek pre-death suspension at the serious risk of getting further suspensions made illegal. > Although I certainly won't knock the virtues of realpolitik, there comes > a time when you have to stand up for what you believe in. What you believe in is getting suspended. I don't believe that people should take risks that will cause that to become illegal, as pre-death suspension is very likely to do in my opinion. Look at the facts: a) In B.C, cryonics is already illegal under the thought that it sells a false hope, and is thus a fraud, even in spite of all the disclaimers put into cryonics contracts b) People regularly accuse cryonics organizations of being snake oil salesmen, selling a false hope either for the money or, once they learn that nobody in cryonics is making money, the power trip. c) In current right to die cases the motives of the doctors and others involved not just in assisting the suicide but in convincing or not convincing the patient to consider suicide are examined strongly. All involved take extreme care to display what most people would consider the purist of motives. The doctors certainly waive any fees to my understanding. Even in spite of that the public is divided on the issue, suspicious or hateful of those involved. They barely vote for the right to die initiatives and they get reversed. Now the public will perceive Cryonics as con game that is killing people, making them believe, in their desperation that they have a hope of life after death if they just hand over $50,000 and let the cryonicists kill them a little ahead of time (better chance of revival) and cut their head off to freeze it. Are you out of your skulls? You don't think cryonics will avoid banning if the public gets that perception? People have that perception *now*, go read sci.cryonics or other sources. Don't tell me you haven't run into it yourself. You can usually convince people it's not a con-game by showing them the salaries of the Alcor staff or the fact that some staff have been suspended themselves, but that takes work. You can't do that for the whole public. Now, what you're saying is that if, like Bob, you wrote a book on Cryonics years ago, then nobody is going to be accused of conning you into Cryonics. Probably. You might convince me that we could get away with pre-death suspension on people who signed up for Cryonics well before there was any sign of terminal illness. (The public won't believe the cryonics choice was rational if it was done once ill.) THe public does not trust the ill to make the choice to die even now, simply to avoid a slow, lingering painful death. The public will not trust the ill to make the choice to spend money on what the public certainly views as a quack scheme that encourages premature death. That's why my pulling support from a cryonics org after they do this is rather moot, there will indeed be nowhere to go after this starts happening. I need to say this in advance to make it happen. In addition, whoever suspends me is going to have a few million of my dollars in trust, and if I can write up the trust to pull that money away if they do nutty stunts like this, I will. Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=5778