X-Message-Number: 5810 Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 19:01:26 -1000 From: (Rick Friedlander) Subject: Re: Origins of Order In my post where I suggested that longevity research and cryonics seem like a synergetic pair, I mentioned "The Origins of Order" by Stuart A. Kauffman M.D. Dr. Kauffman is professor of Biochemistry and Biophysics at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine. He is also an External professor at the Santa Fe Institute which focuses on studies in Complexity in all its manifestations. The book is published by the Oxford University Press c1993. In "Origins of Order" Dr. Kauffman explains how, during undergraduate days he wrote a program which used simple logical gates (and,or) and connected them in networks (called, I think KN Boolean Networks) with varying inputs and outputs. What he discovered through trial and error was that in a network of N nodes with K possible outputs for each node the only setup that produced order was where k=2. On or Off. Evolution seems to be like that as well. If you look at the chemical basis of metabolism it is amazing how similar all the critical parts are to each other- ATP is a nucleotide like the bases in DNA; RNA is almost identical to DNA. It is not difficult to hypothesize that a basic networking principle is at work together with powerful geometric symmetries and form generators to produce an organism. Evolution in small increments over time is still true but these powerful forces have been added to the mix. So, with respect to cryonics, if ischemic injury produces cascades of reactions which eventually lyse cells and produce irreparable damage, one can certainly envison the possibility that because such powerful forces have guided the billions-year-old evolution of cells at the smallest and most proximal distances and energy levels, that with sufficient understanding science should be able to intervene in a powerful way. I can't understand why anyone would think that impossible. As I said before what makes anyone sure of what is real? If there is no certainty of what is "real", then talking about impossibilities is pure negativism. Maybe it is because the stakes are so high. Immortality? Can't be true say the unbelievers. Next point. I would like to add my guess as to how long a cryonic patient will need to be kept deanimated. It wouldn't suprise me if it were possible to deanimate and reanimate humans within 5 years. I am not saying I think that is what will happen, but I think its a better bet than 300 years or even 100 years. If I'm not mistaken the department of defense is looking into cryonics or something like it for deep space missions. They have big bucks... Oh, isn't DOD looking into nanotechnology, and didn't Eric Drexler testify before a panel of military big-wigs? It wouldn't surprise me if the political part becomes the trickiest. Stay cool. Rick Friedlander Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=5810