X-Message-Number: 5828 Date: Sun, 25 Feb 96 15:31:27 From: Steve Bridge <> Subject: More Mac Tonnies on Telekinesis To CryoNet >From Steve Bridge February 25, 1996 Mac Tonnies sent me this privately, then asked me to post it to CryoNet. It is in reply to the message from me posted on CryoNet Feb. 25 and sent to Mac privately as well. Steve ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- To: Date sent: 24-Feb-96 19:42:19 -0600 From: (N E U R O M A N C E R){} Subject: from Mac Tonnies Send reply to: {ACAD.NWMISSOURI.EDU!0212104} >To: Dear Steve Bridge, I appreciate your private responses. My original query has been muddled by the exists/does not exist argument (which is my fault), but my original area of interest was cryonics-related (remote manipulation of genetic information). Obviously, this point gets drowned out when its reality is called into question. In short, I had no intention to "abuse" CryoNet with my speculation, and will most definitely try to rectify my position through documented evidence. One of my main areas of concern is the simple fact that "documented" means different things to different people. ("Documented by whom?") It's hard to disagree with the fact that "far-out" science is easier to disparage than the "mainstream." For example, I have immense confidence in cryonics as a means toward life extension, but only because I've avidly read "the literature" for several years, and from several viewpoints (many seeming to flatly contradict each other). I realize I'm something of an oddball barging into the forum bringing up telekinesis (I'm getting to hate that word!), but certainly you understand the wall I'm up against. How to convince readers already _postitive_ that what I mention is scientific rubbish? (And from some of the responses posted, I've arrived at _exactly_ that conclusion!) Good Lord! These poeple are cryonicists, debating the feasability and merits of "raising the dead"! This sort of thing tends to look ludicrous to anyone not "in the know." I've been made painfully aware of this fact practically every time the subject has come up in conversation. Granted, cryonics is founded in recognized science. But I'm convinced that certain areas of "psychic" inquiry are also grounded in objective fact. Accepting this doesn't mean swallowing every crackpot tale of moving heavy objects with "thought power." There are many more mundane examples that tend to give telekinesis and other trans-cerebral processes validity. Jimmy Carter recently went on the record affirming successful use of "remote viewing" with enemy ocean vessels during the Cold War. He was by no means the first. All evidence indicates that some group in our own government is convinced of telepathy _enough_ to form the backbone of some very important (and very classified) defense manuevers. The identification of nuclear war- heads is not something to leave to "crackpots." And what about some of the documented accounts of "miraculous" healings? (And, yes, I'm aware of some documented accounts that, while not sufficient to provide an "etiology of the unknown," constitute sufficient evidence to demand rational investifation.) >Most people were not particularly upset that you or others might want to >*look for* some evidence for telekinesis. They were upset that you >claimed it was *already* proven fact. This is not the impression I got. The most detracting aspect of "proving my case" is deciding which case studies to type in--there is a wealth of them. But if mainstream science refused to be impressed the 1st time around, why should they give a hoot about my second-hand descriptions? Do you honestly think I can convince anybody? Too many minds have been _made up_...I realized this when I entered my first post, and was hoping for a measure of suspended disbelief, if not cautious acceptance. Lastly: I readily admit that there were many good reponses. But I noticed a certain "smug arrogance" in some cases that suggests that more than scientific principles were "violated" by my post. Thanks again for your messages, Mac Tonnies 509 Phillips Hall Northwest Missouri State University Maryville, MO 64468 (816) 562-6716 http://www.nwmissouri.edu/~0211555/apu.html Forwarded by: Stephen Bridge, President () Alcor Life Extension Foundation Non-profit cryonic suspension services since 1972. 7895 E. Acoma Dr., Suite 110, Scottsdale AZ 85260-6916 Phone (602) 922-9013 (800) 367-2228 FAX (602) 922-9027 for general requests http://www.webcom.com/~alcor Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=5828