X-Message-Number: 5861 From: (Thomas Donaldson) Subject: Re: a clarification about the SOCIAL advantages of immortality Date: Fri, 1 Mar 1996 16:02:22 -0800 (PST) Hi again... And here I am to insert a bit of clarification, if what I've said on the issue isn't already clear enough: A society in which people did not die or sicken of old age would be SUPERIOR to one in which they did. Not only that, but it would win out by natural selection itself: any other society would be burdened by all the expenses of caring for the young and the old, and the medical costs of carrying for all the crippled old, and the costs of educating the young up through high school. (Yes, there would be education still). NONE of these are minor costs. And if a dying society really wanted to make a military issue of the matter, then it would have extra costs which the immortalist society could spend on military research and expenses. (Though I suspect personally that what would really happen, if it came to that, is that whole armies would defect to the immortalist society!). It is FALSE that ageing is caused by natural selection or that it is in any way biologically favorable. What has really happened is that, only in the last 2 centuries, human beings have started to live past the time for which selection designed them ... and so they come down with the diseases of age in large numbers, rather than the few wealthy people (say) in Roman or Greek times who could live that long. Up until very recently (historically) most people died at no more than 50. I'm not just giving my own theory on the matter, I'm summarizing the Darwinian explanation of ageing itself. (Read up on it). Not only that, but even the notion that younger people are more open to new ideas or more creative is false. We must first, of course, disabuse ourselves of the notion that a teenager is in any way original or creative if they wear clothes and do things to offend an older generation. One very interesting study (to bring up Darwin in a different context) looked at the ages of those who accepted Darwin's theory in the 19th Century when it was first proposed. Both old and young accepted (or refused) in the same proportion. We remember the younger people who accepted, because they went on to leave their own name in history. All those who refused the idea of Darwinian evolution are now completely forgotten. (On this one, rather than saying "read up on it", I'll provide the references if asked). So just what is this b------t about advantages to society of death? Best wishes, and yes, long long life, Thomas Donaldson Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=5861