X-Message-Number: 5878
From: Peter Merel <>
Subject: Maya
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 1996 00:19:00 +1100 (EST)

Thomas Donaldson writes,

>On the decline of civilizations, Mr. Merel produced some interesting examples.
>We note, for instance, that the Toltecs had successors (sure, we may have 
>SUCCESSORS too, but that doesn't mean that they simply vanished). The Mayans 
>are actually still there, in Yucatan. 

Yes, I screwed up. I was closest with the Egyptians, and I probably
could have thrown in Nubians and Sumerians - I'll try to work up a
definitive list over the next week or so; this point bears closer
examination than I troubled with in my previous message.

The point I was trying to make was that without adequate technology to
keep pace with them, civilizations grow until they surpass their ability
to maintain themselves - and then bust, leaving behind scorched earth.
However, it's plain that the Mayans and Toltecs have left no deserts
behind them. Excess hand-waving on my part - mea culpa - but I think
the point is still sound.

>a group which regressed would be the Easter islanders; Mr. Merel might also 
>have mentioned the aboriginals of Tasmania. One problem these peoples had 
>which most did not was not so much the exhaustion of resources as the small
>number of people: it takes more than a certain amount to keep any animal 
>population going indefinitely. A lot of Pacific islands, once populated by
>Polynesians, were empty by the time Europeans reached them: because they 
>could only sustain too small a population, not because that population
>simply ran out of resources.  

That description doesn't fit Tasmania or Easter Island. Tasmania is larger
than the whole UK. And Easter Island was quite viable until bad land
management cut down its forests - then soil erosion is thought to have
done the rest of the work.

Peter Merel.


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