X-Message-Number: 5921
From:  (Steven B. Harris/Virginia George )
Newsgroups: uk.legal,sci.cryonics,sci.life-extension
Subject: Re: Virtue of suffering
Date: 12 Mar 1996 12:15:34 GMT
Message-ID: <4i3pt6$>
References: <> <>

In <>  (Brian Wowk) writes: 

   >>Misleading nature of John's post aside, a valid question  
has been asked: Why does a suggestion that chemical fixation
("embalming") might be reversible appear ANYWHERE in cryonics
literature?  It turns out that this suggestion did not originate
with cryonicists at all.  It appears, scattered, in many places
outside of cryonics. For example, in 1974 Carl Sagan (who is not
a cryonicist) wrote a book called "Broca's Brain."  In it you
will find a florid and enthusiastic discussion by Sagan about why
he believes it may one day be  possible for "future neurologists"
to recreate the mind of a dead 19th century neurologist, Paul
Broca, because Dr. Broca's formalin-fixed brain is sitting in a
jar in a museum somewhere.<<


Comment:

    No, Sagan is not a cryonicist, but I cannot resist telling a
Sagan story relative to this point.   Actually, it is a story
of Timothy Leary's, who tells of Sagan coming to visit him in
prison, circa 1971.  Leary (for those who missed the history) is
a gentle soul who has had the bad idea to go against the entire
U.S. establishment vis a vis the drug issue, and has been called
the most dangerous man in America by Nixon.  By 1971 he has been 
set up and jailed on a minor marihuana charge, and has proceeded to
escape.  In consequence of his being such a "dangerous" man, the
CIA and all kinds of other government people have tracked Leary
into the wilds of Afghanistan and bought him back to the U.S.,
where he is now incarcerated in maximum security.  At the time
Sagan comes to visit, the prison is on lock-down because of a
prison riot (nothing to do with Leary), and all maximum security 
prisoners are chained in their cells.  This includes Leary.  Sagan
 has come to personally confront Leary about some of Leary's recent 
public statements about the advisability of manned space exploration, 
something which particularly offends Sagan's sensibilities (Sagan 
wants cheaper robots).  Leary's being shackled hand and foot in the
dungeon does not deter Sagan from pursuing his debate point: 
"Now tell me, Tim, EXACTLY why do you want to get off this
planet....?"

     Of course, Leary says something like "You can't figure that
out, eh, Carl?"  And it does indeed seem that there are some
fundamental connections which Sagan has not made, even though he
has almost gotten there, and been led by many.  Consider the
problem of mortality.  His musings on Broca's Brain notwithstand-
ing, Sagan historically did not respond to any of the cryonics
literature sent him on the basis of that essay, some years ago
(by me, among others).  It appears, nevertheless, that Sagan is
capable of learning something about the value of life-extension
when his nose is rubbed in it, even if it is learned late. 
Sagan, as it turns out, recently underwent a bone marrow transpl-
ant for myelodysplasia, and his article in PARADE magazine just
this week details how the experience changed his character.  It
seems that Sagan, now in the shadow of death (he's still under-
going chemotherapy) has discovered that he likes being alive,
wants to live to very old age, and is grateful to technology for
giving him more time for all of this projects.  He mourns that he
won't be around to see people go to the stars, or to see the
future of China, or any of the other great questions unanswered
today.  Hmmmm.   

    Leary, interestingly, is way ahead.  Sagan, in a celebrated
recent book has come around to the idea of manned spaceflight--
but that's a generation-old issue for Leary.  Meanwhile, Leary,
having found that he, like Sagan, has a life-threatening illness,
and wishing like Sagan to see some of the same far future, has
characteristically taken the next step and straightforwardly made
preparations to have himself cryonically suspended.  This he has
done with much fan-fare in the media.   There is no telling what
Sagan thinks of this.  So far, Sagan has yet to show up at
Leary's to say: "Now tell me, Tim, EXACTLY why do you want to
have your brain preserved...?"   If he does, no doubt Tim will
say: "You can't figure that out, Carl?"   Some people never quite
catch on until very late.   Sometimes, too late.

                              Steve Harris, M.D.


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