X-Message-Number: 6086
From: John de Rivaz <>
Newsgroups: sci.cryonics
Subject: Porthtowan Vantage Point
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 08:19:55 +0100
Message-ID: <>
This is my column in Venturist Monthly News. I am posting it here because
1. It may be of interest to this newsgroup
2. Email to <> where it should have gone does not work, at
least it failed to deliver after 8 days. If Dr Mike Perry or anyone
else involved in the production of Venturist monthly News reads this,
hopefully he can download it from this newsgroup.
Porthtowan Vantage Point
by John de Rivaz
A lot of the debate on cryonics centres around the suggestion that it is
not natural for people to live a long time or indeed forever. I have
countered this by suggesting in that case if you want to be natural then
you need to go and live naked in a cave in central Africa and eat raw food
by hunting and gathering.
However as a counter to that it has now been suggested that the natural
state for humans isn't this - we have evolved to live in cities or at the
very least in houses and supported by civilisation. Therefore the use of
the word natural becomes more difficult. In fact it ought to be replaced by
"average". But there is no real average person, and indeed people strive to
be above average as a sign of success. But go too far above average and you
become an object of destructive envy, and can be assailed both by
individuals and the collective because of this. If someone falls too far
below average, he is again subject to assault, in this case people can
consider him a fool and take what little he has for themselves.
Language has a very powerful impact on how people think and behave. The
word "love" is very loaded. If someone says that they love their human
partner this is acceptable, and if they say they love their dog or their
parents or their child this is also acceptable. But if the word has
identical meaning they would be committing an illegal act with their dog,
parent or child. Similarly powerful loadings exist around "natural" and
"average" and "death" and indeed many of the words used in discussing
cryonic suspension. These also include "right" "freedom" and "society".
One of the most repetitive arguments that appeared in the Internet debate
with uk lawyers was that people seeking cryonic suspension were after
special treatment in being allowed the freedoms necessary to do it. The
fact that these freedoms weren't needed by most people were regarded as
powerful and justifiable arguments for withholding them from cryonicists.
The freedom to bequeath was said to be secondary to the freedom of
survivors to claim estates under the law, and the freedom to direct
disposal of "remains" was said to be secondary to the freedom of survivors
to cut them up for legal or medical research. "Special Treatment" even
though it was being asked in a negative sense (ie they were asking to be
left alone, not for something to be given to them) equates to "above
average" treatment and pushes the individuals concerned into the
"destructive envy" bracket alluded to earlier.
The "rights" of society to direct disposition of assets is on very shaky
ground. There is no law against people disposing of their assets in a very
frivolous manner in the last days of their lives. They can throw huge
parties every day or go on a whole series of expensive cruises and
holidays. They can sell their houses and live out their last days in luxury
hotels all perfectly legally. If the individual is unable to look after
himself, he can even be directed by society to dispose of his assets to pay
high fees to caring institutions, which can include heavy sales or value
added taxes in some jurisdictions. Indeed, the mechanism of the annuity
exists and can be used (albeit highly inefficiently) to ensure that you die
leaving a zero estate. Annuities are a major product of the legal and
investment professions and are highly respectable.
Similarly the "rights" of society to hack up "dead" people so that they
cannot be suspended are on equally dodgy ground. Transplant and other
surgery now has procedures where people are temporally in a state what
could legally be defined as dead. However I would suggest that if a coroner
burst into an operating theatre at that instant and ripped open a body,
tore out the organs, weighted and measured them, and them threw them in the
trash he'd find himself on a murder charge, even if he did manage to get
off it on a technicality concerning technology's advance past the current
legal definition for death. [A good plot for a courtroom drama?]
Further Thoughts:
1. Annuities
We all know that annuity companies don't offer very good rates considering
they get all the capital. However I wonder if it would be possible for the
individual, using an offshore base, to set up his own annuity company under
his sole control to pay himself the annuity and transfer the company to the
cryonics or reanimation organisation without hindrance when he goes into
suspension?
2. Fiction
A fairly common reason some people have against cryonics is that they don't
want to be "messed about with" on death. If it were more public about what
happens at autopsy, then they may be more public feeling against it and
pressure for laws allowing an individual to issue binding instructions
against it. If it were possible to make a film or story that portrays
autopsy in a particularly horrific light, then it would probably sell well
and incite such public feelings. Edgar Allen Poe wrote of "The Premature
Burial". Maybe it is now time for "The Premature Autopsy". I am not sure
which impacts more on the public, a film or a television series. Unless it
is at the top of the league, the latter is probably repeated more often and
is seen by more people. However a film of the quality of "The Silence of
the Lambs" may create a bigger impact. Plot possibilities include the idea
of someone wanting to commit a murder and using a legal technicality to
autopsy someone in an operation. But this would be difficult to make
realistic.
Another alternative would be a disease that makes people appear dead, the
medical profession failed to recognise it (as with ME), and one revives as
their chest is cut open for autopsy. It is some while before the medical
profession accepts the disease, and several more people are cut up alive,
each in gory detail and with suitable noises and horror-style music and
sounds (in Dolby Surround Sound, of course). Many members of the profession
are shown in the worst possible light whilst maintaining credibility, but
our intrepid hero is himself within the profession and seeks to clean it
up. Maybe the conclusion could be with someone suitably pretty and
vulnerable being fed into the maw of an autopsy and only rescued at the
last moment. Possibly an antidote to the disease could be found and the
coroner's facility is broken into by an armed squad of "goodies" (as a last
resort because the authorities won't listen). The antidote injected whilst
a live satellite feed shows the world the proof so the government and
profession can no longer cover it all up. Yes, I know similar ideas have
been used before but obviously not exactly the same and the right focus may
do the intended job - work up public feeling outside of cryonics against
compulsory autopsy.
--
Sincerely, ****************************************
* Publisher of Longevity Report *
John de Rivaz * Fractal Report *
* details on request *
****************************************
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