X-Message-Number: 6211
Date: Wed, 15 May 96 17:41:01
From: Steve Bridge <>
Subject: A bit more on Standing By
To CryoNet
>From Steve Bridge
May 15, 1996
In reply to: Message #6205
Date: 15 May 96 04:22:25 EDT
From: "Steven B. Harris" <>
Subject: Standing By
Well, I guess I pushed Steve Harris's buttons on the standby issue.
But I do not want to revive the "Cryonics Politics" subsection on this
one. I learned long ago that I could never learn to debate as cleverly as
Steve Harris can, so it's best not to get into that situation with him.
There are several various clever and nasty things that we could say about
each other's posts; but I don't see a reason to do it.
So a few short answers, but not a full debate.
>Steve doesn't say how many of Alcor's clients have actually credit-card-
>guaranteed their standby service, but he does say somewhat misleadingly
>that it is the "most common choice." Would it not have been more honest
>to say that Alcor *offers* formal credit-card financed standby, but that
>to date, few have accepted? "Most common choice" implies in use that a
>reasonable number of people do this sort of thing (since making
>comparisons is silly for small numbers of people). I'm curious, however,
>as to the absolute number of people who have chosen the dedicated credit-
>card option at Alcor. Two? Three?
Better than that. Out of Alcor's 380 members, our data base lists 59
who have standby arrangements (I actually thought it was a lot more than
that; our data base might need some updating); 20 have dedicated credit
cards.
>Most of CryoCare's members are people of integrity and commitment, who
>are not self-destructive. In the end, I think CryoCare will do okay by
>standing by these people.
And MY point was that this may not continue to be so if the
organization grows larger. No insult at CryoCare's current members was
implied or intended.
>As to Alcor reading the warnings, it seems to me that Alcor missed all
>kinds of warnings in half the cases Steve mentions.
This is possible, but it is certainly not some kind of Alcor policy
that we discourage people from telling us these things. I simply
reiterate that as an organization grows larger, it will have problems
making these kinds of contacts. Hindsight is 20-20, of course. Perhaps
the presence of Steve Harris in Alcor would indeed have persuaded these
families or individuals to keep up to date with Alcor. Perhaps Steve will
be able to keep in weekly touch with several dozen ill people in the
future. I would be delighted to have a doctor with that kind of
background participating with Alcor again. I was not criticizing his
efforts in this regard; merely pointing out that the situations were
different.
>And (of course) again also there is implied the idea that medical
>knowledge isn't germane to quality in cryonic suspension either. That's
>the subject of Steve's next sentence, in which he suggests that such
>things aren't even the proper responsibility of cryonics organizations,
>and so (presumably) can be safely left out.
No such implication was made unless the sentence Steve H. refers to
is badly taken out of context.
>amused at Bridge's suggestion that Alcor, after moving away from
>their largest physical concentration of members, should be now
>excused because their standbys are thereby made more
>difficult and expensive than many of CryoCare's will be. This
>has the feel of the Menendez brothers asking for clemency on the
>grounds that they are orphans. Nobody forced Alcor to move to
>Arizona.
Sigh. That IS clever but nasty. Just what I want to avoid. And not
the intent of what I actually said. I merely point out that the
situation will be quite different for CryoCare when they have standbys in
more remote locations.
Stephen Bridge, President ()
Alcor Life Extension Foundation
Non-profit cryonic suspension services since 1972.
7895 E. Acoma Dr., Suite 110, Scottsdale AZ 85260-6916
Phone (602) 922-9013 (800) 367-2228 FAX (602) 922-9027
for general requests
http://www.alcor.org
Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=6211