X-Message-Number: 6536 Date: Mon, 15 Jul 96 19:28:34 From: Steve Bridge <> Subject: More Prometheus Thoughts To CryoNet >From Steve Bridge, Alcor July 15, 1996 [This is a reply from me as an individual. An official statement from Alcor's Directors will posted in a day or two.] Re: various Prometheus comments. Again, I am reminded of how e-mail can distort communication. My post yesterday seems to have produced more consternation than I intended; partly as a result of some people reading and commenting line-by-line, instead of looking at the whole of what I said. Another problem was that, from two decades of hanging around several cryonicists with a strong sense of the dramatic, I used the phrase "fool of the worst kind." In cryonics, the reader's immediate assumption is that I am calling HIM a fool. Someday maybe I will be able to buy software that will not let me type certain words. I was not trying to discourage participation in the project. I was trying to discourage participation by people who will want to distort it away from his worthwhile goals by an insistence on it turning a profit, *whether or not* it finds the answers we need. My point was NOT that I think people are fools if they make investments in the Prometheus Project or any other cryonics research. My point was that they should not do so because they expect to get rich. Several of the sentences which were quoted out of context by others referred ONLY to that point. Of course, as Brian Wowk puts it, I do not mean to say that "nothing will be accomplished." Any decent scientific work done by this project will accomplish greater knowledge. That doesn't mean it will make people rich or that it will accomplish "convincingly demonstrable, fully reversible brain cryopreservation within 10 years" -- which, after all, is the stated goal we are being sold, not a goal of "some more knowledge." Several people appear to have seen the initial statement of the project goal and then made the leap to assume that the path to that goal was established, open in front of them, and that Paul Wakfer was selling tickets. MAYBE HE IS. My point is that you should not assume that. You should invest in this project if you think it has a good plan and if you think it *might* produce the knowledge and technology necessary. I have spent too many years talking with people with a limited interest in cryonics except they think they can "make a killing" -- so to speak. Don't invest in Prometheus primarily because you want to make money at it. Invest, if you choose, because you want to stay alive. That is *Paul's* reason, you might all notice. A few other minor comments: >From Peter Merel: >However, presuming that matters of politics, technical direction and >personnel are agreeable, sitting on your funds while such a possibility >goes unfunded seems to me to be, itself, a risk - for the reasons I >described in my earlier posting. Yes, of course, Peter, but those are BIG presumptions as this project is just getting started. I might also add to your list: legal requirements, business plan, and management policies. >From Bob Ettinger: >2. One potentially VERY serious problem seems to have been ignored so far >on CryoNet. If I understand it correctly, the Prometheus pledgers will be >required to make a BINDING commitment to an annual payment over ten >years. They will be sold shares, and will OWE THE MONEY, with no way >out--short of bankruptcy or hiding--unless they can find buyers for the >shares, and are allowed to sell. [some cut] >If a pledger (shareholder) dies, will Prometheus sue his estate for the >balance? This suddenly brings up other questions. For those pledges where the individual is donating to a non-profit for the non-profit to invest in Prometheus, with whom is Prometheus's agreement? If an Alcor member/donor dies before completing his pledge payments, will Alcor have to complete them, since Alcor actually made the investment? If an organization's ability to use the technology is pinned to its member participation (either through donation or direct investment), what happens when some investor or donor switches organizations or quits cryonics or is frozen? >From Paul Wakfer: >I did not begin this project with the expectation nor requirement >of strong support from the cryonics organizations. There are lots of >501(c)3 foundations which would accept directed donations for this >project. If I need to I can easily start one myself for this sole >purpose. 501(c)3 status is *not* hard to get, if the non-profit is *truly >and only* a scientific research funding organization. Paul might be right here, but I think it would be harder than he thinks if the non-profit is for the sole purpose of investing in *one* for-profit company, as he is proposing. A non-profit which would make grants directly to several researchers or companies would not be a problem, I agree. >And I believe that Steve Bridge is wrong about the IRS not allowing the >holding of a proxy for the share by the donor of the money which buys >those shares. Again, Paul might be right here; I don't know. I didn't call the attorney on that one. To all the Prometheus supporters: You all wanted criticisms and comments. Don't get worked up when you get what you asked for. And don't expect that something this complex can be set up in one week. This emotional frenzy to get people and groups to pledge *right now* could prevent the kind of careful business-like consideration that is needed. Steve Bridge Stephen Bridge, President () Alcor Life Extension Foundation Non-profit cryonic suspension services since 1972. 7895 E. Acoma Dr., Suite 110, Scottsdale AZ 85260-6916 Phone (602) 922-9013 (800) 367-2228 FAX (602) 922-9027 for general requests http://www.alcor.org Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=6536