X-Message-Number: 6536
Date:  Mon, 15 Jul 96 19:28:34 
From: Steve Bridge <>
Subject: More Prometheus Thoughts

To CryoNet
>From Steve Bridge, Alcor
July 15, 1996

[This is a reply from me as an individual.  An official statement from 
Alcor's Directors will posted in a day or two.]

Re: various Prometheus comments.

     Again, I am reminded of how e-mail can distort communication.  My 
post yesterday seems to have produced more consternation than I intended; 
partly as a result of some people reading and commenting line-by-line, 
instead of looking at the whole of what I said.

     Another problem was that, from two decades of hanging around several 
cryonicists with a strong sense of the dramatic, I used the phrase "fool 
of the worst kind."  In cryonics, the reader's immediate assumption is 
that I am calling HIM a fool.  Someday maybe I will be able to buy 
software that will not let me type certain words.

     I was not trying to discourage participation in the project.  I was 
trying to discourage participation by people who will want to distort it 
away from his worthwhile goals by an insistence on it turning a profit, 
*whether or not* it finds the answers we need.

     My point was NOT that I think people are fools if they make 
investments in the Prometheus Project or any other cryonics research.  My 
point was that they should not do so because they expect to get rich.  
Several of the sentences which were quoted out of context by others 
referred ONLY to that point.

     Of course, as Brian Wowk puts it, I do not mean to say that "nothing 
will be accomplished."  Any decent scientific work done by this project 
will accomplish greater knowledge.  That doesn't mean it will make people 
rich or that it will accomplish "convincingly demonstrable, fully 
reversible brain cryopreservation within 10 years" -- which, after all, is 
the stated goal we are being sold, not a goal of "some more knowledge." 

     Several people appear to have seen the initial statement of the 
project goal and then made the leap to assume that the path to that goal 
was established, open in front of them, and that Paul Wakfer was selling 
tickets.

     MAYBE HE IS.  My point is that you should not assume that.  You 
should invest in this project if you think it has a good plan and if  you 
think it *might* produce the knowledge and technology necessary.  I have 
spent too many years talking with people with a limited interest in 
cryonics except they think they can "make a killing" -- so to speak.  
Don't invest in Prometheus primarily because you want to make money at it.  
Invest, if you choose, because you want to stay alive.

     That is *Paul's* reason, you might all notice.  

A few other minor comments:

>From Peter Merel:

>However, presuming that matters of politics, technical direction and
>personnel are agreeable, sitting on your funds while such a possibility
>goes unfunded seems to me to be, itself, a risk - for the reasons I 
>described in my earlier posting.

     Yes, of course, Peter, but those are BIG presumptions as this project 
is just getting started.  I might also add to your list: legal 
requirements, business plan, and management policies.

>From Bob Ettinger:

>2. One potentially VERY serious problem seems to have been ignored so far 
>on CryoNet. If I understand it correctly, the Prometheus pledgers will be
>required to make a BINDING commitment to an annual payment over ten 
>years.  They will be sold shares, and will OWE THE MONEY, with no way 
>out--short of bankruptcy or hiding--unless they can find buyers for the 
>shares, and are allowed to sell.
[some cut]
>If a pledger (shareholder) dies, will Prometheus sue his estate for the 
>balance? 

     This suddenly brings up other questions.  For those pledges where the 
individual is donating to a non-profit for the non-profit to invest in 
Prometheus, with whom is Prometheus's agreement?  If an Alcor member/donor 
dies before completing his pledge payments, will Alcor have to complete 
them, since Alcor actually made the investment?  

     If an organization's ability to use the technology is pinned to its 
member participation (either through donation or direct investment), what 
happens when some investor or donor switches organizations or quits 
cryonics or is frozen?

>From Paul Wakfer:

>I did not begin this project with the expectation nor requirement
>of strong support from the cryonics organizations. There are lots of 
>501(c)3 foundations which would accept directed donations for this 
>project. If I need to I can easily start one myself for this sole 
>purpose. 501(c)3 status is *not* hard to get, if the non-profit is *truly 
>and only* a scientific research funding organization. 

     Paul might be right here, but I think it would be harder than he 
thinks if the non-profit is for the sole purpose of investing in *one* 
for-profit company, as he is proposing.  A non-profit which would make 
grants directly to several researchers or companies would not be a 
problem, I agree.

>And I believe that Steve Bridge is wrong about the IRS not allowing the 
>holding of a proxy for the share by the donor of the money which buys 
>those shares. 

     Again, Paul might be right here; I don't know.  I didn't call the 
attorney on that one.

     To all the Prometheus supporters: You all wanted criticisms and 
comments.  Don't get worked up when you get what you asked for.  And 
don't expect that something this complex can be set up in one week.  This 
emotional frenzy to get people and groups to pledge *right now* could 
prevent the kind of careful business-like consideration that is needed.

Steve Bridge


Stephen Bridge, President ()

Alcor Life Extension Foundation
Non-profit cryonic suspension services since 1972.
7895 E. Acoma Dr., Suite 110, Scottsdale AZ 85260-6916
Phone (602) 922-9013  (800) 367-2228   FAX (602) 922-9027
 for general requests
http://www.alcor.org


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