X-Message-Number: 6766
Date: 18 Aug 96 04:11:26 EDT
From: Paul Wakfer <>
Subject: Prometheus: Cryonics & not-Cryonics
I am very pleased that Thomas Donaldson has pledged to the project, is
an enthusiastic supporter of its reversible brain cryopreservation goal, and
has strongly supported vitrification as the clear method of choice at this
time for the achievement of that goal. However, I *must* take exception to
his argument that the Prometheus Project's goal, even if achieved, will have
little effect on the size and strength of the current cryonics movement and
the acceptance of the cryonics idea by established medicine and science.
Before proceeding let me state my description of the cryonics idea of
which I am speaking. I maintain that the cryonics idea in its widest form
(and which is the one that I seek to promote) is the preservation of the life
of a human whose quality of life has deteriorated to a level which is no
longer acceptable by that human, until such time as future medicine can
restore that human's life to healthy vitality and potential happiness. For me
the "preservation of the life of a human" is accomplished if the memory and
other mental faculties are captured and preserved in any way such that they
will at some time in the future be able to be restored to a fully functioning
human body or to another operational form which has at least as much power,
freedom and potential for happiness. This description encompasses many
current ways in which people die, from some situations in which people
currently commit suicide, to remote accidents in which the person has
appreciably deteriorated before any preservative procedure can be performed,
to those who are in constant pain but might be able to live for many years
yet, to those whose minds are being inexorably obliterated by disease, to
those who are near death in a hospital setting, to those who are simply
greatly debilitated from old age. For all these people, the cryonics idea
says "Let us put you into a state where no further deterioration (and
therefore no pain, consciousness or other life processes) takes place, in the
reasonable expectation that the progress of science and medicine, which is
evident all around us, will inexorably lead to the solution of all current
human health problems, and that this same progress will, hopefully, be able
to recover your memory and other mental attributes if the physical
repositories of these have been damaged by the preservation process. When
those situations obtain for your particular health problems and for the
preservation damage which occurred in your particular case, we will do the
very best that we can to restore you to at least the health, vitality and
potential happiness which you enjoyed in the prime of your life or could have
if you had been well."
There are two reasons why I must attempt to refute Thomas's argument.
The most obvious is that I believe that it is not true. But the more
important reason, for the Prometheus Project, is that if its accomplishment
does not cause a major enhancement of the strength and acceptance of the
cryonics idea, in my estimation it will have failed. Unless I thought that
this enhancement of cryonics had a very good chance of taking place, I would
never have even *started* the Project, I would certainly never have pledged
$100,000 (about 50% of my current assets) to it, and I would never have even
*dreamed* that I could obtain $10M from life-extensionists to execute its
research goal.
While I have not been active in cryonics for nearly as *long* as Thomas,
I believe that I have been *more* active in recent years, in talking to the
"public" about cryonics. I have done this by "manning" tables with cryonics
literature and books at science fiction and health fairs, by attending many
semi-public social gatherings of those often with only a mild interest in
cryonics and by one-on-one conversations with many, many people who are
negative or only curious. And I don't mean to make any negative implication
about Thomas here. We all know that he has an incapacitating illness. I only
say this to emphasize that *I* have more *recent* contact with the public
whose views of cryonics I believe have been changing for the better over the
years thanks to people such as Bob Ettinger and all of the many other
tireless cryonics leaders.
In my contact with the "public", I have found that there *is* reasonable
interest and acceptance of the cryonics idea (and by "reasonable", I mean
about 25% of those I talk to in these selected situations). But that this
acceptance does not lead to any action because cryonics does not currently
have any evidence that what it is doing will work. In fact, because of some
misleading past publicity, many people approach the subject thinking that
dogs have already been frozen and revived, and they are quite put-off when I
have to tell them truthfully that no mammal has yet been frozen and revived
from a temperature at which it can be kept indefinitely.
Before going on, let me make it very clear that I am not suggesting that
any kind of *majority* of doctors, scientists or the public would accept
cryonics. However, if only 1/100 of 1 percent of the US population were to
become signed up for cryonics as a result of the scientific success of the
Prometheus Project, this would be about 30,000 members or an increase of 50
times our current membership. I believe that there is no question that such
numbers would ensure the legal acceptance of cryonics and its growth and
stability through time. I am as certain as I can be that the convincing
demonstration, the peer-reviewed publication, and the subsequent
reproducibility of the recoverability of memory and other mental faculties
from the procedure which the Project will perfect must have a major effect on
the acceptance of the cryonics idea at least for the case of those who have
the benefit of this procedure.
It may well be that success of the Prometheus Project will see a split
of cryonics into two (even antagonistic) camps. One, the old cryonics
organizations which still espouse the (perfectly valid) idea that people
should be frozen as best they can be with whatever damage they have suffered
before and during the procedure. And a second, larger and a branch of
established medicine, which holds that it is only acceptable to preserve
those which can be done with the scientifically valid reversible procedure,
and furthermore, that this will now be allowed as an elective medical
procedure. In fact, I believe that such a split is almost inevitable. But are
we all to sit here on our hands and reject the fully reversible elective
option just because it may no longer be thought of as cryonics?
I agree that it is possible (maybe even likely) that the success of the
Prometheus Project will *not* achieve very strongly the promotion of that
*portion* of the cryonics idea that says "freeze them even if deteriorated
with as little damage as possible because it gives more hope than burying or
cremating them". But many of us will *not* approach death that way, many of
us *will* be careful to ensure that we are in the best possible situation for
preservation, and many of us will be able to take advantage of the more
widely available damage-free, reversible and elective services which I
believe will soon follow after the successful completion of the Prometheus
Project.
Yes, and some of us no matter how careful, will still suffer a terminal
situation in which we are not eligible for the "medical" cryopreservation
procedure. Such people, and I may be one of them, will always need cryonics
as practiced today. Certainly, whether the Prometheus Project is successful
or not I shall remain signed up for cryopreservation under *any*
circumstances. And my company CryoSpan will remain in business as a long-term
care service provider to whatever organizations and patients choose it.
However, if the new procedure is widely available through a much
enlargened and strengthened community of service providers, then it is
reasonable to expect that a much higher percentage of patients will achieve
an optimal cryopreservation than is the case today.
-- Paul --
!!!!! REVERSIBLE BRAIN CRYOPRESERVATION *CAN* BE ACHIEVED IN 10 YEARS !!!!!
Paul Wakfer email: Voice/Fax: Pager:
US: 1220 E Washington St #24, Colton, CA 92324 909-481-9620 800-805-2870
Canada: 238 Davenport Rd #240, Toronto, ON M5R 1J6 416-968-6291 416-446-9461
(Currently in California)
Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=6766