X-Message-Number: 6767 From: (Thomas Donaldson) Subject: Re: Paul Wakfer's comments Date: Sun, 18 Aug 1996 13:24:17 -0700 (PDT) Hi again! For those on the Prometheus forum, some of what I say here will repeat my previous posting there. For those not, perhaps this may serve as an explanation of my opinion from the person (ME) who originated it. In my previous posting ("Cryonics is not Suspended Animation") I was pointing out that BY DEFINITION the occasions at which we would expect to be suspended were those in which current medicine had no idea what it might do to help us. If a treatment were really available, no doctor would decide on suspension in preference: suspension cures nothing, but merely allows a very long wait for a POSSIBLE but still uncertain cure. Not only that, but if someone tries to be suspended in a situation in which treatments DID exist, there would be strenuous efforts to apply that treatment. In one way, we see this now with some of Kevorkian's "patients": some have simply suffered from prolonged depression, and such patients have evoked the most concern and request for intervention. And that is why, too, most legislation on a "Right to Suicide" has included strong provisions that 2 or more doctors agree on the patient's condition. Doctors will someday become converted to our viewpoint on "death" and "aging", and our viewpoint on cryonics too. But until that time, to anyone who does not accept the idea of waiting in pure hope (note that there can NEVER be any guarantees that treatments will be found in any fixed time), suspension will seem just as much a leap into the dark as it does now. Ultimately history will decide who is correct. But I raise these points specifically against the notion that we will see any great interest by current medicine (even a 1% interest) in using suspended animation for medical reasons. And we most certainly won't see it until we can do far better than suspended animation for brains alone (though yes, it may produce more reams of "ethical" writing by those who specialize in that). As for those who sit on the sidelines and hope that cryonics will someday become sufficiently "advanced" for them, when push really comes to shove, they will find that their fundamental uncertainty remains unchanged. And that fundamental uncertainty (the HOPE that someday we can be fixed) is essential to cryonics and cannot be removed by any given technical advance. Nor will we (or medicine, when it comes to that) ever be able to PROMISE a cure to those who become suspended. And because the world and people are full of complexity, I'll also point out that successful brain suspensions may ease the way toward use of laws allowing assisted suicide by cryonicists. But even that is hardly acceptance by doctors as a technique they themselves will use. Best and long long life, Thomas Donaldson Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=6767