X-Message-Number: 6839
Date: Mon, 02 Sep 96 18:40:22
From: Steve Bridge <>
Subject: Alcor's Florida standby
To Cryonet
>From Steve Bridge, Alcor Foundation
September 2, 1996
In reply to several messages on the "Florida non-suspension," including:
Message #6817
From: (hEpCaT)
Subject: SCI.CRYONICS: Re: Leary Secret Out...
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 14:31:12 -0700 (PDT)
Message #6821
Date: 30 Aug 96 03:16:32 EDT
From: "Steven B. Harris" <>
Subject: SCI.CRYONICS:Cosenza Alternate History
Message #6825
Date: 31 Aug 96 03:16:27 EDT
From: Carlos Mondragon <>
Subject: SCI.CRYONICS re harris--
Message #6829
Date: 31 Aug 96 15:11:51 EDT
From: Saul Kent <>
Subject: Steve Harris and the Florida Case--
****************************************************************
This particular string of misinformation started with an
particularly ill-informed rumor from Dave Cosenza, who also added some
gratuitous insults:
>...But, I guess this
>isn't surprising coming from a man who apparently still sees nothing wrong
>with talking terminally-ill people into spending their suspension funding
>on pointless medical care so that they end up in ashes or buried in the
>ground (as he did a few years ago with one particular Alcor member). By
>comparison, I don't think anyone at Alcor has been "unkind". -dc
Absolutely, Steve Harris did no such thing. Steve's explanation in
#6821 was a pretty good summary of that case, with a couple of minor
errors or ommissions, understandable with the passage of time. There are
so many misunderstandings in Dave C.'s major sentence above that it is
hard to know where to start.
To make it worse, Carlos Mondragon's attempt to summarize the case in
#3825 had a couple of major mis-rememberings in it, confusing the
situation even worse. To begin with, Carlos states, "For those who don't
know, I was Alcor's CEO at the time..."
No, Carlos. This took place in March and April of 1993. *I* was
CEO then. It may have been painful for you; but not for that reason.
There is a temptation here to restate the entire case; but I don't
see that there is much to gain from that, and my own notes have been mis-
filed. But I will at least try to clear up some aspects.
First, and most importantly, while the question of "should
individuals use their money for short term medical treatment or long term
cryonics treatment?" is a valid one -- it doesn't apply to this case!
The Florida patient was an AIDS patient with an undiagnosed infection
(probably caused by a previous IV or PTN line), which likely caused some
mental instability or depression, and who had taken an overdose of
tylenol. He was not terminal from AIDS itself. Even sloppy treatment by
the hospital extended his life another year. Proper treatment (and having
the entire thing happen a year or two later when better AIDS drugs were
available) could have given him a lot more time. Steve Harris knew this
and was *correct* in his statements at the time that this man should
receive proper medical treatment.
There wasn't even a question at the time of whether medical care
would affect his cryonics care, because we thought he had properly secured
his cryonics funding -- a trust account at a bank. In fact, unbeknownst
to us, he had made his *mother* the beneficiary.
No one discussed the question "Should he use this money to pay his
hospital bills?" We assumed that it could NOT be used for that. Steve
Harris certainly did not talk this man into doing any such thing.
Steve Harris says an Alcor representative called him first; Carlos
says that Saul Kent called in Steve; Saul says it was Tanya. Actually, it
was *me*, in my capacity as Alcor President. Tanya told me we needed some
medical advice. I tracked down Steve Harris, who was Alcor's only
experienced medical consultant at that time and who had been invaluable on
several previous suspension situations. After briefly explaining the
situation, I got Steve in touch with Tanya.
Saul Kent (along with others in Florida, including Bill Faloon and the
Tupler family) was very helpful all through this time and did not
interfere at all.
One correction required on Steve Harris's summary in #6821:
>At the time, Alcor was merely embarrassed at being thrown out of the
>hospital room (and vaguely angry at me about it), and still later even
>more embarrassed that they had almost frozen a man with no funding
>(something they've done by mistake several times).
Actually, we have frozen a patient with no funding only once, later
in 1993, when an insurance company refused to pay Alcor the death benefit
for an AIDS patient who had lied about his condition on the insurance
application. The two year contestability clause had not expired, and the
company was not required to pay. James Bedford, the first cryonaut, was
taken on as more or less a charity case (after many years of independent
storage by his family), and there are a handful of other cases where,
after careful consideration of the individual cases by Alcor's Directors,
somewhat *under*funded patients were accepted.
> This is not to say that Alcor ever thanked me, even though it
>was they who had asked me to find out the truth and assume the
>role of physician.
Well, I did thank Steve, but probably not strongly enough; and I'm
sure it got lost in the misguided arguments that followed. This incident
was the beginning of a long spiral in which Steve and I, once very good
friends, have become severely estranged both personally and
professionally. In my nearly four years as Alcor President, the double
loss of Steve Harris's connection to myself and to Alcor is one of the two
or three things I regret most.
I do not believe that any actions of Steve Harris prevented this
patient from being frozen. I agree that it is correct to present the
choices to people and to let them decide. We may all be faulted at
various times for pointing out the wrong choices or for not explaining the
consequences well enough. But this is usually in hindsight, at which we
have many experts. The individual still has to choose. Choice is what
cryonics is all about.
*********
Last, a word about style (probably in vain, but I have this
compulsion...):
Dave Cosenza starts with insults, Steve Harris adds more insults back
to Dave, then Carlos (for some reason) wonders why Steve is being
insulting, and adds some more of his own back to Steve. As intellectual
discourse, this is the equivalent of dogs urinating on fire hydrants,
except that the dogs get more information from the urine.
I would really appreciate a bit more intellect and a lot less urine
on CryoNet. If Dave C. wants to provoke a discussion of a real problem
with making cryonics decisions, he should start with the question and his
opinion, and not interlayer the useful stuff (Yes, Dave *does* have useful
questions) with cheesy insults. And the rest of you should be grown up
enough not to rise to that bait.
Steve Bridge
Stephen Bridge, President ()
Alcor Life Extension Foundation
Non-profit cryonic suspension services since 1972.
7895 E. Acoma Dr., Suite 110, Scottsdale AZ 85260-6916
Phone (602) 922-9013 (800) 367-2228 FAX (602) 922-9027
for general requests
http://www.alcor.org
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