X-Message-Number: 6897
Date:  Fri, 13 Sep 96 14:47:57 
From: Dave Pizer <>
Subject: Pizer replies to several

Dave replies to several CryoNet folks

Yesterday several people replied on CryoNet and asked questions and made 
suggestions.  I have been having trouble with my computer and the whole 
Alcor system had some big problem for a while.  I think it is fixed now.  I 
think my message got sent several times. Sorry.

First Charles Platt wrote:

> On Thu, 12 Sep 1996, Dave Pizer wrote:
> 
> > Our scientists also informally compared two frozen rat *brains*, one 
> > protected with the Visser technology and one without.  There appeared to 
> > be a significant difference (positive) in condition of the one that was 
> > protected.  I know this does not answer many questions.
> 
> Dave, it doesn't answer ANY questions!

snip

I am not qualified to answer any further questions on this.  I just made an 
informal comment.  It will be a while before one of our scientists can 
answer questions like these.

We only have Hugh Hixon working full time.  Several others help him but 
they only work part time. One reason I would like to see some donations come 
in quickly is so that we can get one or two more people working full time to 
do more work AND to have time to answer questions.

snip

> I can certainly understand that you'd like some more money to do more
> research. We'd all like more money for our research. But in the absence of
> any explanation of the procedure and results so far, quite honestly you
> are asking for money while providing even less information than the
> Prometheus Project (which is merely asking for highly conditional future
> pledges, not actual donations, specifically BECAUSE it cannot yet answer 
> the necessary questions).

I remember the Prometheus Project asking for $10,000,000 in pledges and the 
plan will be devised after the money is pledged, and then has to go 
through an approval process.   This may be a good idea, I am not trying to 
comment on the goodness or badness of this approach.

All I am saying is that while people are waiting for the large Prometheus 
Project to get up and running, they might want to make a small donation to 
Alcor or IS to do some research now.

> 
> I myself would be willing to donate money to Alcor to help with research,
> if I had a reasonable idea about what the research has achieved so far,
> what it hopes to achieve in the near future, and what methods may be used.
> Right now, since you are hoping to hire someone in addition to Hugh Hixon,
> I'm not even sure who will be conducting this research. 

I am not sure either, who will be helping Hugh.  If you would donate now, 
that will help us answer this question sooner.

 
> A note from Hugh himself might be helpful, here. He, after all, is the 
> one with the science background. I certainly wouldn't attempt to present 
> Mike Darwin's research results for him, if I was asking for money on 
> behalf of Twenty-First Century Medicine. You and I are mere PR people, 
> Dave. Can't the experts speak for themselves?
> 
> --Charles Platt (speaking for me, not CryoCare)

I agree it will be best for Hugh to reply.  However, lately he spends a lot 
of time in the lab and little time at his computer.  I think he wants to do 
more experiments before he responds so he can answer all the questions at 
once and get back in the lab.  
---------------------------

Paul Wakefer wrote:

>      It has been stated by others in several messages now that the 
Prometheus
> Project will not be ready to do any research "until 1998" or "for one and a
> half years". This is a misunderstanding of the stated method of operation of
> the Prometheus pledge campaign. It is also rather amusing that a delay of one
> year in the start of a project which has an excellent chance to MAKE CRYONICS
> CREDIBLE after 30 years of doing nothing, is now being construed as one of
> its disadvantages.

Paul, sorry if this seemed like I was pointing out a general disadvantage. I 
did not mean to imply any comment on advantages or disadvantages of 
Prometheus. I was just trying to make a simple point that based on what you 
have said, Prometheus might not be ready to do research for a long time and 
people who want to fund some research now, might want to donate to Alcor or 
IS, both of who need funds to do more research now.

In a year, or whenever Prometheus is ready to accept money, cryonicists can 
compare what Alcor and IS are doing to what Prometheus is planning to do 
and make their decisions.  At that Prometheus might want to raise some 
money for Alcor's and IS's research to continue.  Especially if we can 
report some good news by then.

Please don't try to read more into my request than there is.  I am just 
suggesting that those who want to fund research and can afford to 
contribute some money now, may want to send a donation in.  They don't need 
to pledge to continue more donations.  They can observe the work and make 
decisions as the work progresses.  

snip

Saul Kent wrote

>     On today's Cryonet, Dave Pizer asks for $100,000 in donations
> to Alcor for research into the Visser technology.  I would appreciate it if
> Alcor would post details about their proposed  research, including
> what they plan to do, how they will do it, who will do it, where it will be
> done,
> and their research goals for the project.

The answer to all these questions will depend on how much money people 
contribute to the research program.  Right now, Hugh Hixon is mostly 
working on this with an occassionaly volunteer helping. 

I would like to see us raise some money to hire Hugh one or two helpers.  
Hugh has a degree in biochemistry and is certainly qualified to do 
research. If we had one or two full time persons to help him, a lot more 
work would get done - faster.

snip

Brian Wolk wrote:

>         Before spending $100,000 on the Visser work (without a
> target organ even being specified?), why not spend a few thousand
> dollars on some pilot experiments to see if the CPA is useful
> for cryonics?  

This is probably a good idea, but I doubt that it is as simple as Brian 
makes it sound.  Since a lot of things that need to be done are being done 
by Alcor for the first time in a long while (for them), it may take more 
money than a lab that you might be used to.  That is why every little bit 
of money we raise for research right now helps so much.

Another thing I have learned that makes reserch go slow is that everytime 
the scientist discovers something new, it does answer a few questions, but 
it opens up lots of additional ones.  So the more the scientist seems to 
learn, the bigger the list of new experiments seems to grow.

snip

>         Most importantly, let's see some brain EMs, and CNS
> toxicity studies.  All the above could be done for a few
> thousand dollars, and if successful would make it much easier
> to raise vastly larger sums.

These sound good.  I think it will take more than a few thousand dollars to 
do this and the other tests Alcor may want to run.  We have to start a lot 
of things from scratch.  Remember for the first few years we were in 
Arizona, we did not do much research (we did do some technology 
development).  Then we started doing research based on things similar to 
BioTime work which involved perfusing whole rats.

Thanks for all the good suggestions.

I hope for now, CryoNet readers can make smaller donations (and big ones 
if you want to ) to Alcor and IS to help do more pilot research and as we 
have time to report on the results, if  the readers like what they are 
seeing and want more done, they will contribute again.

For now, any donations, large or small, to research will be appreciated.

Dave Pizer 


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