X-Message-Number: 6917 Date: Mon, 16 Sep 1996 11:33:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Charles Platt <> Subject: Sharing Bob's Optimism Bob Ettinger has stated that applying the Visser method to sheep hearts would "(a) extend the evidence for the Visser method to a larger organ and a different species; (b) it will help pave the way for work on human hearts and other large organs, potentially leading to organ banking and saving of lives; (c) it will almost surely improve public relations and the credibility of cryonics, as well as bringing the Visser method to the attention of more potential sources of funding for Mrs. Visser's further work." Item (c) suggests this is to be a fund-raising media event as opposed to research in the usual sense. Goals (a) and (b) seem to have no relevance to brain cryopreservation, which I thought is our main concern here. Bob has not answered my point that a slaughterhouse is an inappropriate source of organs for an experiment where all variables should be controlled. I believe that the scientific community would not take this experiment seriously, and it would help to brand cryonicists as amateurs. My fears of another "Miles the beagle" event are beginning to seem more plausible. Bob continues: > Of course, our work with sheep brains will have more direct importance for > cryonics, and that will begin as soon as possible--and will require more > funding. The last work by this Ukrainian team was not well documented, and the results may not have been accurately interpreted. The pictures seemed to show considerable freezing damage, but they were poorly reproduced and the work was not written up with sufficient detail for others to attempt to duplicate it. (Language difficulties may have played a part in this.) Bob also writes: > (b) There are additional reasons for optimism, which we cannot yet reveal, > based on the specific nature of the Visser method and its effects. If the reasons for optimism cannot be revealed, don't blame us for not sharing your optimism! > 4. Brian minimizes the importance of the rat heart success by saying it is > [merely] "...an extension of similar work peviously reported for small > amphibians to small mammals..." > > Karow and others have tried for about 30 years to accomplish this feat. I believe whole frog hearts were successfully resuscitated more than 20 years ago. As I have said before, we know that life processes can restart. The issue now is FREEZING DAMAGE TO BRAINS. > You have already trumpeted that your secret version of > vitrification has been successful with SLICES of rabbit kidneys. Is success > with slices of rabbit kidneys more impressive than success with whole rat > hearts? This is grossly misleading. The work on vitrifying rabbit kidneys was not secret. It was supported by the Red Cross and I have read at least one paper on the subject. I also have a color slide showing a vitrified WHOLE kidney (not slices). This picture has been published in the past, and will appear again in the next CryoCare Report. The only secret is the name of the researcher, who prefers to distance himself from cryonics because he rightly fears its possible effects on his reputation in the scientific community, which is where he makes a living. You certainly know his name, Bob, and I would be happy to discuss his work in private email with anyone who's interested. > For the others, I can only appeal to common sense. We welcome your comments, > but will not delay our work to submit our plans for your approval. Do you > really think that we and our collaborating and consulting experts are unaware > of the issues you raise? Do you think we would expend our time and money if > we didn't think we could do it right? Don't you think the risk/reward is > immensely favorable? Do you really think we should trust ANYONE (even Bob Ettinger!) who merely says "Trust me, I know the best way to spend your money."? > Therefore I am willing to pledge to PP and to urge others to do so (the LARGE > MAJORITY in cryonics who are not yet committed to PP)--but ONLY if the PP > people will give PPP the same support. As I said yesterday, I'd like to know who's willing to pledge or give personal funds to the Visser project. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the only person who has made a (conditional) pledge so far is Brian Wowk! --Charles Platt Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=6917