X-Message-Number: 701 From: Subject: Re: cryonics: #699 Date: Mon, 6 Apr 92 23:06:52 PDT Sigh, as if I am not busy enough. This is to answer the comments by Michael Paulle in reference to the possible move of Alcor to Pheonix. Patient care is the gold standard by which we have to measure our activities. Our patients in suspension (and those needing it soon) come before considering the convenience of the other members. Why? Living members can take care of themselves, switch organizations, or even start another cryonics organization. The patients have no such choice. Moving out of earthquake-ridden California to a more stable place has *always* been on the "do it as soon as we can afford it" list. Now, patient care does *not* have to be in the same place as where people are perfused and first frozen, but for reasons of economy of staff, it is currently unavoidable. (Incidentally, good location (on/near rock) and good bracing such as we have on the building and some of the dewers will deal with the relatively wimpy earthquakes you can expect in California. The bigger problem is the expected high level of disruption of utilities, and with that, the liquid nitrogen plants. Could we cope with a "big one"? Likely, depending on the roads' being intact, and trucking in liquid nitrogen from Pheonix or the Bay area.) Michael's strongest argument is about the distance between an Alcor facility and the biggest concentration of Alcor members at risk of dying. Is this a real problem? I don't think so. Alcor knows a *lot* about the time which can elapse between the cooling/washout and cryoprotective perfusion/freezing stages of the suspension process. We have successfully revived dogs treated to many hours of cold, bloodless storage. True, less time is better, but (for example) the last two suspensions had many hours of cold storage time, and little or no evidence that they were damaged by the process. (See the writeups and my last column in Cryonics for how we measure damage.) We could *drive* stabilized patients from the LA area to Pheonix for perfusion within the low damage time period. (Not that this may be necessary.) The driving factor for the current moving mania is the space problem in the current facility. It is too small, and trying to work in cramped quarters leads to all sorts of inefficiencies with, for example, research and suspensions. (I speak from direct knowledge here--I have spent close to an accumulated two weeks in Riverside since December.) Alcor is going to *have* to move, or acquire other (perhaps adjacent) space. This option, however, has been made complex or perhaps impossible by the suit against the state health department--they appealed, and the city zoning board is holding up our conditional use permit pending final disposition of the suit. This has been going on since the Dora Kent events four years ago. It is anyone's guess how long it will continue. Why not rent some space? Well, landlords absolutely require tenants to have insurance. If you have been following the Alcor's woes for a long time, the fact that we could not obtain insurance was what *forced* Alcor out of the last facility they had over in Fullerton. *None* of the cryonics organizations has or can get insurance (as far as I know; please correct me if anyone has other data). A factor which I cannot evaluate is Ralph Whelan's asertion that many member prospects who visit the facility are so underwhelmed by it that (for this reason) they do not become members. I know that surface apperances are important, but capability is too. Well, who knows? Perhaps a nice looking building will bring in the lot of these folks, but it is sure going to drive down the quality. As Hugh Hixon put it, cryonics is not for the timid. A new building is *not* going to change what the transport team is doing with your loved one in the middle of your livingroom. A significant driver to looking in Arizona is overpriced California real estate. Taking Mike Darwin's estimates, a reasonable amount of space in the LA area would cost 2-3 times what it would cost in the (very depressed) Arizona real estate market. When you are talking over a million, that is a big hit. If Alcor did move to Pheonix, would that leave the southern California area without stabilization/transport capability? Not necessary. Mike Darwin has been considering offering standby/transport services on a contract basis from a Riverside base. The southern California people could form a solid local transport team, likely more qualified than the one we have in northern California. *If* this move goes through; that is, all the conditions are met, the money is raised, the projected cost has been covered, (including such miscellaneous cost as $10,000 to replace all the bracelets/neck tags with new ones with the new phone number), and the political climate is found to accept cryonics then I think it will be a good deal for Alcor. There is no way that it will be anything close to the giant bite TT/ACS are taking with the huge building they are purchasing in the bay area. If it does not, Alcor is going to have to slug it out with the zoning folks, and look for more space nearby. Incidentally, I have not looked at the new building, though I should. Someone has to figure out what the power/air conditioning cost is going to be for the place, and it might be me. By the way, I lived in Tucson (120 miles southeast of Pheonix) for the 25 years before 1985. My folks live in Prescott some 90 miles north of Pheonix. Between June and September driving through Pheonix in the daytime was a dip to hell. I wouldn't make as much of this proposed move as Michael has. Alcor goes into this mode on a fairly regular basis, and 4 times out of 5, nothing comes of it. My annoyance is that we really do have serious skills problems (even with Mike being willing to help), and move mania is distracting attention from solving them. Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=701