X-Message-Number: 7081 From: Date: Sun, 27 Oct 1996 12:00:13 -0500 Subject: economics, cryonics Ron Selkovitch (#7080) seems to think that capitalism will not survive "into the future" and that we are kidding ourselves if we think we or our organizations can get rich through compound interest while we are in cryostasis. It seems to me these remarks are greatly oversimplified and leave important considerations out of account. First of all, it is extremely close to certainty that capitalism in the U.S. will survive into the future, since tomorrow is the future. Maybe even past the election. More seriously, probably for decades at least. A few decades might be enough for some of our organizations to amass great wealth AND for at least some of our patients to reach the stage of candidacy for revival and rejuvenation. (If the Visser technology can be adapted to cryonics, for example--and CI, Alcor, the Vissers and collaborators around the world are working on this or related projects--our patients in the next few years might suffer much less damage than our previous ones.) Secondly, if capitalism eventually becomes obsolete, what will replace it? As far as I can see, the only likely way capitalism could wither would be for individuals or families to become essentially self-sufficient through full-blown nanotech and AI. If every individual or family possesses an "intelligent" machine, capable of reproduction and self-improvement as well as general-purpose fabrication; and if such machines are made safe by making them effectively extensions of the human brain; and if they use full-blown nanotech and have access to some reasonable minimum of matter and energy; then these machines could provide almost everything one might want, including goods, information, advice, medical services, whatever. In such a milieu, there might be greatly reduced need for trade or commerce and for any credit/debit system. Of course, one can always imagine a dark side. There might still exist potential and desire for unusual power or influence, based on possession of unusual amounts and types of matter, energy, or organization. Maybe "wealth" would consist of possession of extraordinary memory and bandwidth and speed, as well as physical productive capacity, in one's machines. There might still be those who want to be bigger and stronger and impose their will on others. However, it seems to me MUCH more likely that, in a world of immortals, with so much more to lose and with no one desperate or in want, mental health and cooperation would become the norm--eventually. There will certainly be a very dangerous transition period, and that will provide our major challenges. But my main point, in the context of Mr. Selkovitch's remarks, is that if society reaches this stage before our revival--essentially everyone with essentially unlimited wealth--then we will wake up unimaginably rich, with or without continued compound interest. Finally, it is very possible that all these sea changes will take much longer than the optimists now predict, and capitalism might last for centuries, with the old-fashioned kind of compound interest faithfully at work. And the reminder: CI, Dr. Pichugin, and Alcor have already begun working on projects related to adaptation of the Visser technology to cryonics; and collaborators on five continents are working on aspects related to organ banking. Your donations might speed up the work, with obvious implications for you and your family. Tax deductible donations can be made to the Immortalist Society, 24355 Sorrentino Court, Clinton Township MI 48035. Robert Ettinger Cryonics Institute Immortalist Society Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=7081