X-Message-Number: 7251
From:  (Thomas Donaldson)
Subject: Re: Values and science
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 1996 11:31:33 -0800 (PST)

Hi!

I've read Ettinger's discussion of science with interest. One of the first
problems I can see with it is that we'd then need a better notion of just what
constitutes "honesty". The problem is that too many people will protest that
they ARE being honest, even quite deluded people (go speak to those who
believe that flying saucers come from aliens, or who believe in naturopathy,
etc). 

But with values I feel confident that there is an even worse problem. Bob
can write whatever he wants about scientifically founded values, and publish
it, but it will become very clear that most people will simply ignore what
he has to say. He may even be right, but they will still ignore it; and
they will do the same if someone much more famous in the outside world did
the same.

Ultimately our values as individuals derive from our biological urges. That 
does not mean we will always do the right thing, even for our biology. It
means that they control us. And if someone comes and says our values are
wrong, we'll then go out and rationalize them. Sure, as intelligent people
we do have some control over that, and can sometimes restrain ourselves
for the sake of a future goal. But we will still rationalize... which put
otherwise, means that we will devise our own set of ideas to show that our
values are right for us. Such sets of ideas, if they obtain wide currency
because the rationalizer is (say) a prominent person, are called morals 
and ethics. (If I just do it for myself, no).

If honesty in this case comes down to working out what you REALLY want,
then as I began, we need a much better definition of honesty.

			Best and long long life,

				Thomas Donaldson


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