X-Message-Number: 73 From arpa!Xerox.COM!merkle.pa Thu Apr 06 13:13:50 PDT 1989 Received: from Cabernet.ms by ArpaGateway.ms ; 06 APR 89 13:13:59 PDT Date: Thu, 06 Apr 89 13:13:50 PDT From: Subject: CRYONICS: The California State Coroner's Convention in Sacramento: a trip report To: Message-ID: <> Status: R The California State Coroner's Convention was from March 12 through 17 in Sacramento at the Sheraton Sunrise Hotel. There were roughly 80 attendees with representatives from most of the coroner's offices in California. A total of 6 cryonicists attended the convention, with members from both Alcor and ACS. Four of us arrived Tuesday March 14th around 5:00 pm. After checking in, we started socializing at a hospitality suite set up by MORTECH, a postmortem equipment supply company. Larry Gillespie, the conference organizer, proved to be cheerful and sociable. After introducing ourselves to him (we had previously talked on the telephone) he introduced us to representatives from other counties, and we were off to a pleasant evening discussing nanotechnology, sky hooks, computers, the use of modern genetic techniques in forensic pathology, the definition of death, and (of course) cryonics. The general atmosphere was one of interest, and people were basically sympathetic. The hi-tech conversations were viewed as interesting (most people working in coroner's offices do not use E-mail, and are not always up on the advanced technology of the present -- let alone the projected technologies of the future). The basic impression, however, was one of overwhelming lack of knowledge about cryonics (other than a few lurid headlines). Several people mentioned that the talk on cryonics (scheduled for the next morning) would be timely and of general interest. Mike Darwin gave the talk on cryonics the next day, from 9:00 to 10:00. He presented a large amount of information about cryonics in a short time, and the general response was "very informative!" Some people didn't like the presentation (or the subject), but the most frequent response seemed to be "If you guys want to try it, that's okay." There were a few notable exceptions -- primarily people who were involved in litigation with Alcor (e.g., members of the Riverside coroner's office and David Mitchell). The question and answer period was lively, and clearly could have continued had there been more time. Most questions were simply seeking information, some were hostile. One woman with experience in the cryopreservation of tissue (not for cryonic suspensions) asserted rather belligerently that the costs for liquid nitrogen were very high -- she knew, she dealt with it! This produced a barrage of facts from Mike about the cost per liter of liquid nitrogen (both currently, and the lower costs that larger bulk purchases would allow), the boil off rates from various dewars, the overhead costs incurred, the amortization period of dewars (they have to be replaced periodically) and the like. This produced rather a good impression. Following the talk, we passed out 40 information packets (all we had). I examined one and was pleasantly surprised to find (mixed in with several other things) a new introduction to cryonics: "ALCOR: Threshold To Tomorrow." (January, 1989, available from Alcor -- once they finish the second printing -- for $5.00 each. Well worth the price). It is definitely the best introduction to cryonics I have ever seen, presenting the pros, cons, current status and future prospects with clarity and accuracy. Interestingly, though no one said so explicitly, it was fairly clear that Carillo (the coroner of Riverside) was -- to put the matter tastefully -- not viewed with respect. It appears that Alcor unwittingly selected the most -- inopportune -- county in which to set up shop. Keith Henson provided the following additional comments: During the MORTECH reception, I found myself talking to Mickey Worthington, one of the Riverside coroners. Mickey treated me like another coroner (who else would be at a coroner's convention?) and I did not disabuse him of this idea. I made the comment, "Heard you folks have been having problems." Surprisingly, Mickey said the Liberace affair had been the worst of their troubles. This would be hard to understand until you consider the flak they must have taken from Liberace's many fans for abducting his body from the Forest Lawn cemetery and returning it in a number of sacks. Also, most of his fans probably did not want to hear the facts of Liberace's illness or lifestyle. Mickey was not pleased that Mike Darwin (one of the "bad people") would be addressing the convention the following day. (Mickey had helped put cuffs on six of the people at the Alcor facility during the raid -- one of those arrested was Mike. A false arrest suit for 1.6 million dollars is now pending against the coroner and several others responsible for the raid and the arrests). Next on Mickey's list was "the headless woman" affair. Mickey felt they had so much trouble with that case because "bad people" were involved. He mentioned they had taken a day and a half to search Alcor. I asked what they had found, and Mickey mentioned stolen property from UCLA. When I asked if anyone had gone to jail, Mickey said no, that much of the "stolen property" was record keeping errors on the part of UCLA. Mickey was none-the-less sure that the people at Alcor had done something which would land them in jail. Next day I introduced myself as an Alcor member to both Mickey and Ray (Carillo). Ray said that it was nice to meet me "as a human being" (as opposed to a dark force that bugged them to release the Dora Kent paperwork?). Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=73