X-Message-Number: 7408
From:  (Randy)
Newsgroups: sci.cryonics
Subject: 20% of cryonicists autopsied?
Date: Fri, 03 Jan 1997 04:08:02 GMT
Message-ID: <>

I just got my copy of the latest CryoCare Report and, as usual, it is
the best of the cryonics periodicals that I have seen. The report,
like CryoCare, is technology-and-science oriented.

 There was , however,  one article that shocked me somewhat. The
article on the BPI training course taught by Mike Darwin contained
some figures on cryonicist preservations that I think should be
discussed, and I suppose this is a good time and place to do so. I
hope that this post does not scare off any potential cryonicsts,
because facing up to the hard facts of life is part of what cryonics
is all about.

The article states that, among other things, 20% of all cryonicists
are autopsied before being cryopreserved. I do not concede that the
fact that a cryonicist is autopsied means he/she could not be fully
revived with the aid of nanotech; he/she very well could be, but I see
it as a definite negative. Any comments on how to avoid autopsy?

Also, the article breaks down, percentage-wise, the conditions of
cryonicists at death: 

* 5-6% die without being frozen

* 20% autopsied

*5-6% die in such a manner that they undergo long periods of ischemia
(lack of oygen to the brain?) Heart attack victims?

*20-30% die with Alzheimers, brain cancer, AIDS, and other diseases
which cause organic brain damage. (is this necessarily a showstopper?
I would think not, except for brain cancer)

*20-30% suffer long periods of premortem shock during a slow dying
process (I have seen this, as have many others I'm sure; they're still
alive, but seem to be marginal human beings. It would seem that
nanotech brain repair techniques would take care of this).

Perhaps these seemingly dismal stats can be partly explained by the
fact that many of the cryonicists who were preserved in years past
were not in a position to maximize their chances. Perhaps we are in a
position to do so by looking at the past and learning from it. Also,
medical technology continues to improve, and this is another advantage
we have.

Preceding these stats is a paragraph stating that animal experiments
have shown that good brain ultrastructure is shown with
cryopreservations of animals that have undergone up to 60 minutes of
global ischemia. I seem to recall reading something that Mike Darwin
wrote about 24 hours of room temperature ischemia  being the rough
limit for preserving ultrastructure. Have there been experiments
showing that greater than 60 minutes of room temp ischemia precludes
cryopreservation with good brain ultrastructure?

Possible measures that would seem to help us might be:

1. Don't commit suicide (at least until suicide is legalized for
terminal patients, which I know will open up another can of legal
worms). It seems as though I have read of several cryonicists who have
committed suicide and undergone long periods of ischemia. Undoubtedly
those suicides contributed to the above figures.

2. Personal electronic monitors that could alert others in the event
of sudden cardiac arrest. This is what really scares me. If I have a
heart attack and lie on the floor for 3 days, I don't see how that
could help my chances much. Also, it might help to live in a large
metro area with a  large cryo population and a standby team.

As for the organic brain damage caused by the "bad (legal) deaths"
noted above, perhaps legalized suicide may be the answer. I know that
Dr. Thomas Donaldson has already fought and lost this battle, but I
have followed the Kevorkian case closely, paying special attention to
opinion polls. It seems that he has popular opinion on his side.
Surely time will give us this victory.

That leaves 25% of signed up cryos having the "good (legal) death"
that would seem to maximize revival chances.  I do not take these
stats to be obstacles to my preservation and possible revival, and I
think that foreknowledge of them can only help my chances.

Again, I recommend the latest  CryoCare report, if the reader is
interested in cryonics. The latest BPI cryopreservation, that of James
Gallagher, is covered in scientific detail. There are 19 graphs of
Gallagher's pertinent medical parameters ( blood gases, body temps vs.
time, cryoprotective agent concentrations, etc.) This is, IMO, how
cryonics should be done. Kudos to the BPI team.

Randy


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