X-Message-Number: 7613
Subject: Visser
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 1997 13:06:19 -0500
From: "Perry E. Metzger" <>

Michelle Olga Visser writes:
> <Look, if Visser would just publish her results -- I'll take a posting
> <on the internet with sufficient detail to reproduce the experiments --
> <As it is, Visser has taken to operating with all the stigmata of fraud -- 
> <secret results, attempts to get funding from high government officials 
> <without publishing results, etc, etc.
> Please note that we have not tried to extract funds from the 
> government.
> Whatever they input would be returned 1000 fold and on contractual
> basis.

This appears to be a contradiction. You are indeed requesting
government money, whether or not you promise to pay them back. You
obviously HAVE attempted to extract funds from the Government of South
Africa, as the New York Times reported.

When you go to high government officials (as you did in South Africa)
requesting money, you should expect the kleig lights of the press to
shine down on you -- as is only right.

> We have the option to sell out for 100's millions of dollars,

If your "discovery" is worth anything.

> but choose to remain in control - simply to bring the product
> to the poor at no or little cost.

1) You are asking us to assume in saying that that your "discovery" is
   truly an AIDS remedy in the first place.
2) Even if you wish to remain in control, there is no reason you
   cannot publish all your findings. That is not "Selling Out" -- that
   is simply the scientific method at work.
3) If you want the discovery to be available to the poor at minimal
   cost, simply don't patent it. Then, if tests prove that it is
   effective, hundreds of companies will compete to sell it as cheaply
   as possible. Look at what happens to any drug that falls out of
   patent -- the price goes through the floor. If you truly believe
   the stuff works, you needn't play the charlatan's game and not
   publish, or the other charlatan's game of going to the goverment
   for funding for your secret research. You could simply publish and
   not patent.

> This is economics you would never understand,

How does this prevent you from publishing?

> and at present
> I would advise you to count every word you type:-


> I don't know if you can afford to cover the cost of 1000 patients
> on clinical trials and we are inclined to collect from slanderers
> to save people dying.

If you wish to sue me for libel (this is written, not spoken), go
right ahead. I have been threatened with libel suits by about thirty
people over the years on the net, including John Palmer, Karl
Denninger, Fredrick C. Cohen, and numerous others. I can forward you
their threats if you wish. Thus far, no one has actually sued me,
largely because I try very hard to tell the truth.

It is not a libel to say that although I do not know for sure if your
work is valuable or not, it carries with it all the stigmata of fraud,
including unnecessary secrecy, attempts to get funding from
unconventional sources while maintaining that secrecy, claims of
amazing discoveries, etc.

> The Cryo side of matters has nothing to do with AIDS, and I advise
> you to restrict yourself to your expertise, or you will join those
> who have made themselves vulnerable.

Keep on threatening me. Under the laws of virtually every country on
the planet that follows the old English Common Law on libels and
slanders, including South Africa and the U.S., truth is a total
defense against any claim of libel or slander, and to demonstrate a
libel or slander has taken place, you must first demonstrate that
there was malicious intent. You can't do either. As I have said, you
aren't the first to try to shut me up by claiming that you are going
to sue me, and I doubt you are the last.

To be blunt, Dr. Visser, I believe, based on your behavior, that there
is a high probability (but no certainty) that you are a charlatan. I
cannot know for sure whether you are without the ability to
independently try your claimed discoveries in the lab, and I am basing
my belief only on the fact that you are following the usual patterns
of scientific frauds -- to whit, claims of astounding results without
proof, refusal (without good cause) to produce descriptions of your
methods sufficient to attempt to reproduce your claimed results,
attempts to seek funding from unconventional sources like government
officials without first producing any documentation or proof of the
quality of your discoveries, extraordinarily vituperative attacks on
your critics for your refusal to make your methods public, and claims
of being a public benefactor.

It is, of course, possible that you are not a fraud. If you were
simply to publish your methods and results, this would permit people
to assess, objectively, whether or not your claims are true. This
would be a very simple act and would very easily dispell all doubts
about the truth of your comments. There is no legitimate reason for
you not to do so. Until evidence to the contrary is available, one
must assume that your continued refusal is the result of your having
illegitimate reasons to do so.

I will point out that truly astounding discoveries in this century
such as Penicillin, Insulin, and other nearly miraculous drugs, were
made without secrecy, without refusals to publish, without attempts to
seek government committees who would fund the research, etc.

I would welcome a major advance in cryopreservation or in AIDS
research. I am simply losing any faith that you have done either. I
remained silent during the mania for your cryopreservation work, but
now that it appears you are claiming a miraculous AIDS cure as well,
and also refusing to publish information on it and seeking money for
it, I am no longer a silent skeptic.


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