X-Message-Number: 7620
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 14:29:32 +0100
From: John de Rivaz <>
Subject: Re: Olga Visser's AIDS patches

Couldn't agree with this sci.cryonics posting more - it is a matter of 
choice. If the only choice is between death or wearing an untested patch that 
*may* offer life, then anyone who tries to prevent it is the AH. So often 
people in their minds consider choices from the wrong set.

I wish Olga V. good luck and I hope her cryonic process and her AIDS 
processes are a success and all the establishment voices are stunned into 
silence. The facts will tell - if the AIDS treatment is cheap and effective 
in a reasonable proportion of cases, then even armed violence will not keep 
it from the people.

I would say, though, that if it is not patented, then no one will raise the 
billions of pounds and spend the years needed to get it through the 
regulatory process, so it will always remain an under the counter remedy, at 
least in the USA and other developed countries. But if it works, then word of 
mouth will spread it like wildfire and laywers and regulators will be 
flattened in the rush to get it. We know they are worried about physical 
contact with AIDS sufferers, so I don't think they will put up much of a 

However it must be stated that even successful, establishement approved, 
medicines never work in 100% of cases. Cancer treatments are a good example 
of this - manufacturers talk in terms of number of years remission, not 

With cryonics, subsconsciously people make a choice between the set of

1. A normal healthy life
2. being cryopreserved.

They do not make the choice between

1. being rotted
2. being burned
3. being cryopreserved

At the time of cryporeservation, only the second set of multiple choices 
remain. there is no further option. The problem is that people confronted 
with the idea do not see themselves at the time when the second set is the 
only option, because they are not at that time. No one has ever suggested 
that people be cryopreserved when healthy (in order to arrive in the future 
healthy) because the suspension damage is so severe. However that suggestion 
is frequently made when suspended animation is presented in films, and is 
therefore subsconsciously embedded.

In article: <>  Chris Benatar 
<> writes:
> the circumstances in which the test
> subjects were recruited and that includes the environment they were
> living in. The methods and levels of consent obtained. I don't even
> know exactly what Virodene consists of and neither does anyone else
> in this thread - just conjecture.etc. etc.
> I found the following statement on the internet describing how the
> drug was administered:
> The patients wore the patches for eight hours once a week
> Not quite the large injections pumped in reguarly that I was envisiging
> after reading Harris's post. I would guess that the dose from a patch 8
> hours a week is fairly low. 
> Lets not try judge the case before hearing witnesses and evidence.
> Anyone who does try this just comes across as an arsehole in my
> book. 
Sincerely,     *          Longevity Report             *
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John de Rivaz  *           Fractal Report              *
               * http://www.longevb.demon.co.uk/fr.htm *
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