X-Message-Number: 7646
From:  (Thomas Donaldson)
Subject: Re: CryoNet #7619 - #7626
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 00:11:15 -0800 (PST)


Charles made a good report about the Visser experiments. I was unable to 
witness the last rat because my transportation (which, although he was a 
cryonicist, lost interest in these experiments after the first one and had
been hanging around waiting) finally dragged me away.

This issue of the length of time during which the hearts are at the 
proper temperature (liquid nitrogen temperature) seems to be a key one. 
Immersion for only a minute is unlikely to do it, even for something so small
as a rat heart. When and if she repeats this experiment, either for 
publication or before an audience, she should take care to keep a thermocouple
near the heart. It's very well known to those who work with LN that you can
even immerse your hand in it without danger, so long as you do so very 
briefly. However, no matter how many times the experiment fails, if it
succeeds in a case in which the heart clearly reached and remained at 
LN temperatures for a significant time, then all criticisms will have been

I was definitely surprised by Olga Visser, who behaved quite differently than
the net postings under her name had suggested. I think that made everyone
(including those who had skepticism and questions) sympathetic to her. She
may well be mistaken about her solution, but after meeting her I strongly
doubt that she is simply a fraud. If she can find someone else to speak for
her on the net, or get her husband to tone down his comments, I think that
this sympathy will spread. 

And I will add that even if this cryoprotectant does NOT work, cryonicists
do need cryobiology people to work with. I would hope that in that case
we can somehow provide help for further work, which will turn out better.
The hostility of many cryobiologists to cryonics does not run to the old
USSR, nor does it run to South Africa, and we'll need much more work before
we can even freeze and revive brains.

			Long long life,

				Thomas Donaldson

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