X-Message-Number: 7694 From: (Thomas Donaldson) Subject: Re: "gloating" Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 13:09:40 -0800 (PST) Hi everyone! About "gloating": I attended the Alcor Technology Festival myself, and did so with a certain skepticism about Olga Visser's claims. I do not believe, however, that ANYONE there, including those from BioPreservation, CryoCare, Ralph Wakfer, or the people such as Paul Segall from Biotime wanted her experiments to fail. After all, our lives may depend on just how well we have been suspended, and every one of us want a better cryoprotectant. The problem, if there is any, comes from the simple fact that we wanted her experiments to REALLY succeed, rather than simply give us some kind of simple-minded illusion of success. That is why immersion in liquid nitrogen is so important, and why we insisted on verifiable tests of it (if you have not dealt with LN before, here is a problem: generally there will be lots of vapor. It is not easy to look into the dewar and just see whether or not the sample is really immersed). The one verifiable test was that a thermocouple placed nearby would report LN temperature. All of those present with experience in these issues, including Alcor members, insisted that this be done. We also insisted that immersion go on for 20 minutes. And yes, these experiments all failed. So now we must decide whether to work on something else, or to try to make Visser's cryoprotectant work (confession: I lean to the first choice rather than the sec). As for her other activities, I personally would remain silent. I know that Authorities in other countries, including the US, don't like people who somehow speak out of turn, and show very little interest in whether or not what such people are saying or doing has any merit of its own. Visser will have to defend herself there. But IF her experiments HAD worked, we would have had something important: a better chance at life. I would not have refused that from anyone. Long long life, Thomas Donaldson Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=7694