X-Message-Number: 7722 From: Brian Wowk <> Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 12:31:05 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Visser reminders Bob Ettinger writes: >Rat hearts: Regardless of shortcomings and inconsistency--and whether >or not her procedures will prove useful for other and larger organs--a >number of us saw five hearts (three in September and two on Jan. 31) beat >(in varying degree) after a minute or so in liquid nitrogen, immersed >or conceivably partially immersed. That is new. Without any idea of what temperature the hearts were really at, it's *impossible* to say whether this result is new or significant. >I don't think any of her critics can do the >same with their methods, or have claimed to be able to do so! What is "the same"? >AIDS: First, there WERE toxicity tests. On humans??? >Second, there WERE reported objective >indicia of benefit, such as dramatic reduction of viral count and >dramatic improvement of T-cell count. Third, patient testimonials >included verifiable observations such as disappearance of boils. This is not my field of expertise, but when the Visser work was discussed in AIDS newsgroups it was noted that immune suppressants generally (such as prednisone or cyclophosphamide) have this same paradoxical effect, but with no long-term benefit. In any case, without proper disclosure of what they have done, the work is impossible to evaluate further. This was the same problem with their cryobiological work, and the root cause of the enormous waste, dashed hopes, and damaged relationships they have wrought on cryonics. *************************************************************************** Brian Wowk CryoCare Foundation 1-800-TOP-CARE President Human Cryopreservation Services http://www.cryocare.org/cryocare/ Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=7722