X-Message-Number: 7722
From: Brian Wowk <>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 12:31:05 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Visser reminders

Bob Ettinger writes:

>Rat hearts: Regardless of shortcomings and inconsistency--and whether
>or not her procedures will prove useful for other and larger organs--a
>number of us saw five hearts (three in September and two on Jan. 31) beat
>(in varying degree) after a minute or so in liquid nitrogen, immersed
>or conceivably partially immersed. That is new.

	Without any idea of what temperature the hearts were
really at, it's *impossible* to say whether this result is new
or significant.


>I don't think any of her critics can do the
>same with their methods, or have claimed to be able to do so!

	What is "the same"? 


>AIDS: First, there WERE toxicity tests.

	On humans???  

>Second, there WERE reported objective
>indicia of benefit, such as dramatic reduction of viral count and
>dramatic improvement of T-cell count. Third, patient testimonials
>included verifiable observations such as disappearance of boils.

	This is not my field of expertise, but when the Visser
work was discussed in AIDS newsgroups it was noted that  
immune suppressants generally (such as prednisone or
cyclophosphamide) have this same paradoxical effect, but with no
long-term benefit.  

	In any case, without proper disclosure of what they have
done, the work is impossible to evaluate further.  This was
the same problem with their cryobiological work, and the root
cause of the enormous waste, dashed hopes, and damaged
relationships they have wrought on cryonics.

***************************************************************************
Brian Wowk          CryoCare Foundation               1-800-TOP-CARE
President           Human Cryopreservation Services   
   http://www.cryocare.org/cryocare/

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