X-Message-Number: 7740 From: Date: Sun, 23 Feb 1997 14:26:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: rat heart temperatures Several recent postings have said we don't know the temperature of Mrs. Visser's rat hearts, and therefore cannot, for example, say whether anyone else's methods could have matched her results. This is not really correct. The successful or partly successful hearts (five of them in all, here in Arizona) did not have temperature probes in them, because of possible problems with the probes interfering with the process. BUT several very similar procedures DID have probes, and they showed temperatures in the hearts near that of liquid nitrogen. Therefore, unless you want to contend that there was a systematic difference in treatment of the probed hearts vs. the non-probed hearts, it seems to me virtually certain that all her hearts did reach temperatures close to that of LN2. All the talk about vapor shielding, putting your hand briefly in liquid nitrogen, etc. is just blowing smoke. A tiny little rat heart in LN2, with slight shrouding, gets VERY cold VERY fast. (We have cooling curves.) If any critic will put his hand (a much larger object with much more thermal capacity and much lower surface/volume ratio) into liquid nitrogen for 30 seconds, I will come and visit him in the hospital, and buy him an attachment for his steering wheel so he can steer one-handed. Robert Ettinger Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=7740