X-Message-Number: 7753
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 1997 17:26:11 -0500 (EST)
From: Charles Platt <>
Subject: Visser results

On Mon, 24 Feb 1997, Robert Ettinger wrote:

> This is not really correct. The successful or partly successful hearts (five
> of them in all, here in Arizona) did not have temperature probes in them,
> because of possible problems with the probes interfering with the process.

Since the successful hearts were not instrumented, I suggest their 
results are, at best, open to question.

> BUT several very similar procedures DID have probes, and they showed
> temperatures in the hearts near that of liquid nitrogen. Therefore, unless
> you want to contend that there was a systematic difference in treatment of
> the probed hearts vs. the non-probed hearts, it seems to me virtually certain
> that all her hearts did reach temperatures close to that of LN2.

We have already read a message here from Fred Chamberlain pointing out 
that at least one of the hearts was NOT prperly immersed in LN2. I find 
it odd that you are still reiterating these vague claims without 
addressing the very serious implications iof Fred's message.

> All the talk about vapor shielding, putting your hand briefly in liquid
> nitrogen, etc. is just blowing smoke. A tiny little rat heart in LN2, with
> slight shrouding, gets VERY cold VERY fast. (We have cooling curves.) 

You do not have cooling curves of the successful hearts, because they 
were not instrumented. 

It is still conceivable that Olga Visser's successful experiments may 
rest on valid data. But since we don't know that data, and nor does she, 
because it was not gathered properly, we really cannot and should not 
reach any hopeful conclusions from it--in my opinion, at least.

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