X-Message-Number: 7783
From:  (Thomas Donaldson)
Subject: Re: CryoNet #7761 - #7774
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 22:04:49 -0800 (PST)

Hi again!

Steve Bridge's answer to the "revival promise" strikes me as much better than

Bob Ettinger's. The quote that Bob gave from CI's arrangements does not actually
promise revival. It just states that if CI believes someday that revival is
possible and appropriate it will do what it can to revive you.

So far as I know, NO cryonics organization flatly promises revival. And right
now, in 1997, if one such organization did so they should be told that their
documents, deliberately or not, were bordering on fraud. (Ideally we should
keep the government out of this, and speak to them privately ... but such a
promise may get them in very hot water anyway).

About memory in our body: yes, our immune cells may have to newly acquire
immunities. As for coordination, that may be stored in our spinal cord.
I personally believe that even a practiced violinist, after revival, will
be so glad that he/she has survived that any need (not obvious) to practice
playing will be a minor issue. Not only that, but they will know (as we 
all will, if we can be revived) that we have lots of time to do that 
practice, or whatever else we need, to bring back our old skills completely.
The current lifespan bound, which bears down on all of us (though we forget
it just as we forget the sky, or gravity) will have been removed. All other
requirements become trivia.

Finally: thanks to Mike Darwin again for his technical discussion of the
problems and issues in fluorocarbon perfusion. I too would like to see
my cell membranes preserved, and have the kind of suspension these 
methods suggest we can get --- if only after a few years of work and

However, I will point out that even the loss of cell membranes
does not wipe out all information in our brains. Our cells are thickly
decorated with various kinds of proteins (receptors, etc) and other
structures. Sure, we wouldn't want to simply bring such a person back
to > 0 C temperatures (they would fall to pieces) but that does not 
mean repair (including use of all those proteins to find out where the
cell membrane had been) becomes permanently impossible. Moreover, our
brains have an extracellular matrix of fibers and proteins, too, which
may again give very strong clues. 

Just a word for those who might decide to refuse any suspension but the
best kind, and put that refusal in their suspension arrangements.

Incidentally, Mike, I know that you've frozen many patients with older
techniques, and done dogs too. Just what does happen to their cell 
membranes when they're warmed up? (I mean this as an experimental
question, not theoretical --- though I believe you'd be the last to
misunderstand me here).

			Long long life to all,

				Thomas Donaldson

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