X-Message-Number: 7876 From: Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 15:22:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: emulating brains Joe Strout (#7864) has some remarks on uploading and emulation that, in my opinion, repeat some old mistakes, so I'll briefly regurgitate some old replies. (Joe says essentially that brains are computers and can be emulated, hence can be uploaded, in principle....and with at least the implicit suggestion that this would constitute survival for the uploaded brain.) First, when Joe says brains are computers, presumably he means that all the essential functions of the brain (outside of housekeeping) are computational. This is by no means self evident, and probably not true. In particular, it is not necessarily true that FEELING (or subjectivity) is just a kind of computation, any more than a temperature is just a computation. The condition of being hot or cold is not the same as a calculation of what a temperature would be under certain conditions. The definition of "emulation" is a bit hazy around the edges, but generally it is used to mean a kind of isomorphism, whereby each of (say) two systems has every feature and every behavior reflected in the other (assuming the environments remain identical), so that, observing the behavior of one system, we could accurately infer that of the other. But there are several profound problems: 1. Depending on how strictly you define "emulation," you may run into problems of real time vs. computer time. A Turing tape, in principle, can do any computation that any computer can do--but not in real time. A highly parallel computation might help, but not necessarily by enough. It is possible, for example, that essential functions of the brain require certain events to occur in a small volume of space-time, and it may not be PHYSICALLY POSSIBLE for such to happen in some arbitrary physical computer space. It is possible, in other words, that ONLY an organic substrate can support the necessary interdependency of functions. Thus--conceivably--a computer might be able to PREDICT or describe the detailed function of a brain, and still not BE a brain. 2. Presumably we are talking about digital computers. We don't know whether the brain is (or can be) digital, which leaves many open questions. 3. Even if computer emulation were perfect, spacetimewise as well as otherwise, there would still remain the unresolved question of survival when the original is destroyed (or not) and a duplicate created, or several duplicates. If a perfect organic duplicate of you were somehow created, at some arbitrary distance in spacetime, would that be you? If the duplicate were created in the future, would that constitute your survival or reincarnation? What if duplication were imperfect? What if the duplication were of you as you were at some earlier stage in life? Or as you would become at some later stage in life? These questions have many possible answers, but none that is agreed upon. Would you bet your life on any of the answers, if you were not forced to do so? Robert Ettinger Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=7876