X-Message-Number: 7887 From: (Thomas Donaldson) Subject: a.bit.more Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 00:00:23 -0800 (PST) Hi again! Thinking about my last posting, I decided that a bit of amplification was needed. Here it is. We take for granted the notion of a digital computer, perhaps because they are all around us now. But what do our computers really do? Basically they are devices which move symbols around, and change them according to rules which we (or the programmer of the program we are running) have set up. Yes, this is an abstraction of the real computers, which are electrical devices. The symbols too are small charges or the absence of a charge --- or various other changes. If the computer takes its information and program off a disk, and reads the result back onto the disk, then it is essentially moving and modifying a large set of very small magnets. Put in these terms, the meaning of what any computer does is provided by its user. By now, also, that is too easily forgotten. If we store a digital image on a magnetic disk, then there is no INTRINSIC relation between what we see and the large number of small magnets with north and south poles pointing in different directions. It all depends on the user, who interprets the image on his screen as a picture. The world, however, does not consist of symbols. It consists of objects moving about and reacting to various forces, etc etc. The difference between the motion of the planets and a computer simulation of their motion is a difference between the motion of objects in the world, and an entirely arbitrary motion of bits in a computer according to the scheme we have put into the computer. Not only doesn't the world consist of symbols (which are arbitrarily assigned by us) but no representation of it in symbols can ever capture it fully. The difference is that between the story of an accident in a newspaper and the accident itself. And (say if we want to do computer graphics, all the processing power and clever algorithms we use come from the fact that we are REPRESENTING the world, we are not creating it. And the world itself does not do any computation at all when the planets move in their paths. None is needed). When we say that a computer is a DIGITAL computer we are saying that we will symbolically represent various numbers and values in the real world by numbers in one or more special systems invented for that purpose. Anyone who tries to calculate with floating point numbers will know very well just how much there is a symbolic representation here. I have said that I would not object to STORAGE in a computer. Yes, an object can be stored in a computer, so long as those storing it agree on the set of symbols used, and have both a system to read the object into that set of symbols and to read it out again into a real object. Without all three of these conditions, my storage will fail. Moreover, the neurons which make up my brain might be replaced by more advanced versions, without any issues arising. Why should they? It is as if we replace one real machine by another "better" one (what would make our neurons more advanced is an issue not pertinent here). However, any computer simulation of me, no matter how exact, continues to consist of the moving about of bits in a medium. I have no more reason to believe that this computer simulation is conscious than I have to believe that the characters in a film are conscious. That film is no more than specks of color on a large number of different pictures, so arranged that it will look like a sight of the world. The number of specks, the complexity of the plot, the merits of the acting --- none of these mean that the characters are actually real people. If you mean by uploading that I might someday be STORED in a computer, that's fine. But to simulate me in a computer? That is no more possible than to make a film in which the characters are real. Is this Chapter 5 about uploading? Perhaps. Long long life, Thomas Donaldson Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=7887