X-Message-Number: 7925 From: (Thomas Donaldson) Subject: Re: CryoNet #7910 - #7920 Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 14:05:58 -0800 (PST) Hi again! It looks like my net node has resolved its problems. About survival of our hormonal system: one point which needs raising here is that our hypothalamus and pituitary --- both of which will go with us if we are neuropreservation cases --- actually act as controllers of all our other glands etc. You are ENTIRELY in your head, even if you may not feel that way. (Our hypothalamus is actually part of our brain, while our pituitary is not, but is very closely linked). Your pancreas, adrenal glands, gonads, etc. will respond to the guidance given by the above parts of your brain (which depend on other brain areas, too). They have no independent memory (except, of course, for their DNA). In that sense I think that worries about survival of "endocrine memory" base themselves on a misconception about how we work. As for Taoism (which as a philosophy does have lots more to be said for it than Buddhism, and may have even produced the nearest version of science in China that existed before European science --- cf R. Needham for this) I will draw the same distinction as before, with a twist. Yes, it is true that we cannot see the world for what it really is. But that does not imply that we construct any kind of map (a symbolic object, once more) inside us. Instead we have a large number of neurons, with their connections, interacting with one another. Yes, if we had the power, we might someday read out a map from someone's brain, but that again is a symbolic representation of what goes on inside that person's brain. It should not be identified with the actual events. Why is it that we do not construct such a map? First of all, we certainly don't do so consciously (that we might make much smaller maps of particular things does not matter here). Second, how then do we explain all the behavior of other animals? We ARE animals, after all, and our thinking evolved from that of ape-like creatures, which evolved from that of primitive mammals etc etc. I think it unreasonable to have a theory of awareness that does not admit that horses might also be aware --- not so sharply aware as we, nor so knowledgeable about the past and future --- but still aware. Or pick gorillas if you feel closer to them. Our brain does not work on a symbolic level only, it works on a lower level the same as any machine might work (the famous Model T I mentioned included). And because we did evolve language abilities, we can then put what we think into symbols. But that should not be identified with thinking itself. Long long life, Thomas Donaldson Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=7925