X-Message-Number: 795 Date: Sat, 2 May 92 22:39:31 PDT From: ghsvax! (Hal Finney) Subject: CRYONICS: neurosuspension I share some of the concerns expressed about neurosuspension. First, I don't think the DNA in your head contains enough information to allow an exact duplicate of your original body to be constructed, even with nanotechnology. The DNA contains a "program" which, starting with a fertilized egg in a maternal womb, took nine months to build the body you had when you were born. But a lot happened in those nine months. You hooked up with the maternal blood system; you were exposed to thumps, bumps, different orientations; you were exposed to nutrients and chemicals from your mother's blood in different amounts at different times. No record exists of any of that information, and it has to have influenced the details of your body's development. (Not to mention all the things that influenced your body's growth the rest of your life.) Identical twins start with identical DNA, and have very similar maternal environments, but they are not cell-for-cell identical. At best, DNA would allow the construction of a body which was as similar to yours as twin baby's bodies are. (And probably that ideal can't even be approximated that closely; it would be more likely as similar as are the bodies of adult twins. Often they don't even look like siblings at first glance.) I find especially bizarre Thomas Donaldson's suggestion that it would be at all easy or natural to grow a new body from the neck down. The DNA contains no such program. Presumably as this body is growing down little proto-organs, little hearts and stomachs and lungs, are growing. Do they maintain topological connections with the adult-sized head this whole time, or do they hook up later? How are you going to find the information in the DNA that tells what the mature, adult-sized heart is supposed to look like? The DNA program only tells how to make a heart by starting from an ovum in a womb. It doesn't tell how to grow one out of a neck. Assuming we did make a body by growing it from a cell (or simulating that process on a computer and then using nanotech to build an identical final product), we then have to attach the head. But I don't think the neural networks are going to be completely compatible. The spinal cord is packed thick with neural axons, and probably the new body won't even have the same number and arrangement of neural processes as the head. The mapping will be between two topologically incompatible networks, like cutting Paris and New York in half and trying to butt them together and match up all their streets. Even if this can be done, I don't think the information about exactly what neural axon is supposed to go where will be obtainable by passive means. One of the characteristics of neural networks is that they learn in such a way that you can't really tell by just looking at the network exactly what they've learned. In practice, you basically have to run the neural network and see what it does for different inputs to find out what information its connections encode. (When I say "run", I include both computer simulations and/or biological activity.) In other words, given a head, and a complete map of all the neural connections in it, and how they lead down to the spinal cord, that probably won't be enough for you to figure out that this particular spinal cord neuron was supposed to go exactly to such-and-such a spot on a particular muscle in your left little finger. The brain isn't labelled like that. I believe the only way to get this information is to run the neural net with a variety of simulated inputs. Running enough of these "can you feel anything when I do this" and "try to wiggle your big toe" tests will eventually provide the information needed. But whether this is done on a biological brain or a computer model of one, it could amount to subjective years or decades of boring and possibly uncomfortable experience before I could be fully re-built. In short, although I think neurosuspension could work, I feel that the lost information about the physical form of a body which is compatible with the head can be recovered only through a laborious process that could be quite unpleasant for the head itself. Hal Finney ghsvax! ...!uunet!ghsvax!hal Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=795