X-Message-Number: 7984
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 01:06:03 -0500
From: Brent Fox <>
Subject: Ref. "Any Chance"

To: Dave Pizer <>
From: Brent Fox <>
Date: March 31, 1997

Hello Dave,

In message #7974 you wrote:

>So assuming the leaders really want to help the followers obtain 
>eternal life, the fact that the leaders participate in promising the 
>followers eternal life if the followers merely follow certain church rules 
>may be distracting those same followers from investigating cryonics which 
>may be the only chance to escape death at this time.

I will assume that you are basicly talking about Christianity.  It is 
not the "leaders" who promise the followers eternal life if they
"merely follow certain church rules"...it is the Bible (The Word of God)
which promises such.  Take a look at the following verses from 
the Bible (KJV):

1 Corinthians 15:49   And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we
shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

1 Corinthians 15:50   Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood
cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit
incorruption.

1 Corinthians 15:51   Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all
sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1 Corinthians 15:52   In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the
last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised
incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1 Corinthians 15:53   For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and
this mortal must put on immortality.

1 Corinthians 15:54   So when this corruptible shall have put on
incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall
be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in
victory.

This is part of what is known as the Rapture. The dead in Christ shall
rise first, then those alive that remain shall be brought together with
the dead in the clouds and meet with the Lord Jesus Christ in the air.
Their bodies shall change to be like Christ.  

After the time of the Tribulation, when Christ returns to set up his kingdom, 
those who were originally left on earth and survived the tribulation will
have greatly extended lives.  

For a believer in the Word, why then would they *want* to investigate
cryonics.  They will have immortality.  Yes, this is a matter of
faith, but as it stands now cryonics requires faith as well.

>In other words, nice people wanting to help others may be causing those 
>others to miss out on what they all way.
>
>I find this ironic, sad and horrible.

Gee, on the other hand, would it not be ironic, sad, and horrible to
be revived from cryonic suspension to find that your forehead, or right
hand has a series of numbers with a prefix of 666?  (This would make a 
good "Outer Limits" story) <g>

>Some cryonicists have discussed (many times) if there is some way to change 
>this situation and no one has come up with a possible successful plan at 
>this early time in cryonics and immortalism.  In fact, many think it would 
>be counterproductive to try.

I also think that any attempt would prove counterproductive.  Now, you
would run the risk of having cryonics thought of in the same light as
the Applewhite "beam me up" Heavens Gate cult.  

>I believe that there is a better chance for getting religious people 
>interested in cryonics by going through the church than by going direct to 
>the lay persons.  I just don't know how to do it  -  yet.

Whenever you think you have it figured out, come down here to the South
and test it out.  If it will work here, then it will work anywhere.

Brent
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