X-Message-Number: 8121
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 20:36:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: John K Clark <>
Subject: CRYONICS Science and The Soul

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In #8115 On Mon, 21 Apr 97  Mike Perry <> Wrote:
             
        >A possible counterargument to the emulationists, supporting         
        >Ettinger, would be that a process that emulates another one         
        >in terms of quantum states still may not capture every         
        >feature, and in particular features that in some way are         
        >undetectable, such as  subjective states.  [...]        
        >digital system whose observable states were in one-to-one         

        >correspondence with the original, despite its equivalence in that
        
        >sense, would not necessarily have an equivalent residue, and thus
        
        >might not reproduce the same subjective states. If this "non-digital
        
        >residue" sounds like a form of vitalism, I agree. I think it is
        
        >probably a chimera and I remain an advocate of strong AI and an
                >emulationist, but I'll allow that it hasn't been disproved. 
             

I agree, the existence of the soul has not been disproved and I don't see how 
it ever could be, that's why it's not Science. The logical thing to do is  
play the odds, and Science is the best bet.
             

        >Moreover, I think it is a different idea from the more usual         
        >"spiritual" concepts that sometimes are cited against cryonics. 
             

I disagree, I think it's exactly the same idea and we're talking about a 
traditional religious soul. If it were true then Science could explain  
everything except the most important thing, the only important thing,  
consciousness, the non-digital residue creates it, and that sound exactly  
like a traditional religious soul to me. 

If I know all the information in your body down to the quantum level then I 
know all there is to know about you, and if that's not enough to explain 
everything about you then the non-digital residue must be intrinsically 
unknowable, and that sounds exactly like a traditional religious soul to me.

All information can be duplicated, including the information on the position 
and momentum of every atom in my body, if that does not duplicate my  
consciousness too that can only be because the thing that generates it can 
not be duplicated, and that sounds exactly like a traditional religious soul 
to me.

If all this turned out to be true then the only honest thing a scientific 
person could say to the religious is "You were right, I was wrong, science is 
a bore, cryonics is nonsense, and let's all go to church".
            

                                             John K Clark     


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