X-Message-Number: 8131
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 20:51:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: John K Clark <>
Subject: CRYONICS Nut

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In #8124 On 22 Apr 97 "Robert C. Ettinger" <> Wrote:
           
        >Sometimes the info people take refuge in their own versions of
        >solipsism, saying that we can never know for sure whether another
        >individual--even another human--is conscious,


We do not KNOW that other humans are conscious, that is not taking refuge,
that is not a theory, that is a fact.


        >We are  NOT restricted to observing external behavior. We can study
        >the physiology of mammals


Yes, you can study physiology in animals or engineering in computers, and
you can prove that changes in physiology or computer state lead to changes in
behavior, but there is no way you could ever prove that any of that has
anything to do with the subjective experience of the animal, or the computer.
                 

        >which should finally lead to understanding of feeling in ammamls.


It will lead to theories of consciousness, lots and lots of theories, some
will be pretty silly, but there is no way to prove any of them right or wrong.
In my opinion the soul theory is pretty silly, I can't prove it's wrong but
I'm willing to bet my life it's nonsense. In my opinion the information
theory is not silly and it might someday save my life.


        >If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck,
        >it still might be something that German artisans produced a century
        >ago, a clockwork duck.


True, it might be a robot duck, in the real world you can't be 100% certain
about anything, certainty is unique to pure mathematics. Probably.
But tell me, if you were a betting man where would you put your money?


        >In other words, the Turing Test is garbage.


I've asked this question before but never got an answer, Do you think I'm
conscious?                                       

                                            John K Clark      

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