X-Message-Number: 8344 Subject: Visserization Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 12:24:07 -0400 From: "Perry E. Metzger" <> > From: > > Charles Platt (# 8322) tells us that DMF, the purported active ingredient in > Virodene, the AIDS medication being tested by Mrs. Visser and her medical > associates, is 50% fatal when given orally to rodents in the amount of about > 7 milliliters per kilogram of body weight, and roughly 5.5 ml/kg > peritoneally. [...] > DMF is about as dense as water, so one milliliter is about one gram. For a > person weighing 70 kg or 154 lb, the 50% fatal dose, according to him, would > then be about 7 x 70 gm = 490 gm or roughly 17.5 ounces--WHICH IS MORE THAN A > POUND. The Ettinger Simulation notes accurately that to kill something immediately requires a lot of the stuff. However, that isn't the point. The LD-50 is the amount that will kill half the animals dosed IMMEDIATELY, and I believe was noted for purposes of explaining that we aren't talking about "safe as cornstarch" here. As a cryopreservative, it isn't likely to leave animal parts particularly viable (as was claimed) if it's thorougly perfused into them -- a pound of cryopreservative (the LD 50) isn't going to be enough for a large sized human. This isn't the issue for AIDS patients, though. The issue is for AIDS patients, though, is not the LD 50 (which is of interest primarily in discussing the claims that the stuff is a great cryopreservative) but the fact that the substance in question is a potent mutagen. It doesn't need to kill you right away. It will have a fine old time screwing you up even in far lower doses. Not, of course, that Visser will tell us exactly what the dose is, or why on earth anyone would expect this substance would be a miracle cure for AIDS. I'm sure the Ettinger Simulation would wish us to all pretend that the entire Visser incident hadn't happened, but from my perspective the entire thing is a grotesque embarassment to the people who spent money on Yet Another Quack. Visser seems sincere -- and also thoroughly unable to do any reasonable science. Before money was committed, someone should have personally checked out Visser's methods and tried to look for real evidence of success in advance of proclaiming the new age of cryopreservation was upon us. > Oh yes, Charles asks if I would wear a Virodene patch. Certainly--if I were > dying of AIDS. Were I dying of AIDS, I think I'd stake my hopes on protease inhibitors and the other drugs that have genuinely shown promise in treatment, and not in quack nostrums. The real tragedy here is that actual treatments now exist -- one doesn't have to rely on quackery. Perry Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=8344