X-Message-Number: 8445 From: (Thomas Donaldson) Subject: Re: CryoNet #8442 - #8443 Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 19:10:48 -0700 (PDT) Hi! Preserving heads, human or other, so long as they are the heads of mammals, runs into a severe FUNDAMENTAL problem if you want to preserve them while awake: it is organs in the head which produce many substances which cause aging and eventual death. I refer to the hypothalamus, the pituitary, and the pineal gland in particular. (And of course just removing these will cause derangements in other ways). That is the fundamental problem; there are plenty of problems which are more technical. Keeping any organ alive separate from a body is not at all simple, and the best so far has been only a week or so. But the fundamental problem is something that would have to be dealt with even if you solved all the technical problems. I personally, as a matter of informed opinion, would say that if you found a way to solve that fundamental problem then you would also have solved the problem of aging, and suspension in many cases might not even be necessary. Others might argue about this, however. You may have heard that many cryonicists have chosen neuropreservation. This basically consists of filling the head only (as much as practical) with suspension solution, while lowering its temperature. In practice, a patient's head remains attached to his/her body until all that is done. It is removed just before placing it in dry ice, the first stage of taking it down to liquid nitrogen temperature. (Actually, if I understand current procedure, liquid nitrogen is now used for all cooling, but no tissue should be simply immersed. There is a very carefully design cooling regimen worked out to bring down the temperature relatively slowly and with optimal speed). If a head is removed before the blood inside has been removed, there will be a serious problem with suspension. The clots are very hard to get out once formed. Furthermore, hooking it up properly would require some thought, since current methods remove the head after rather than before most of the procedure. In some cases, such as autopsies, cryonics societies have been able to retrieve only the head or (in at least one case) only the brain. This had been damaged so much by the delay that it was simply frozen straight, with no attempt at cryopreservation. We are all aware of the book to which you refer. I own a copy myself. Fleming apparently either did not know about, or chose to ignore, the fundamental problem I allude to above, and discusses only the technical problems in keeping the head alive. That is a mean problem in itself, and he did no experiments. Best wishes, Thomas Donaldson Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=8445