X-Message-Number: 8489
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 11:05:28 -0400
From: yvan Bozzonetti <>
Subject: T. Donaldson on CO2 and the like

I was out of the net for some time, so that answer is somewhat late, sorry.
In message # 8459 T. Donaldson said:

(snip)
>Second, to Yvan, I would point out that temperature (as in cryobiology)
>serves two functions: both to keep the biological material "still", and to
>protect it from damage. CO2 is quite low enough for the first, but when 
>biological specimens are stored long enough in CO2 they will degrade. No
>such degradation occurs in LN2.

If there is glass state produced by a cryoprotectant, there is no way to
get any significant destructive displacements. LN2 is very corrosive on a
long time, nobody to my knowledge use direct immersion in LN2, the same may
be true for dry ice. A plastic bags solve the problem.

>Also, Yvan, perhaps because of where you live, you may not have heard of
>the work now being done by Paul Wakfer, who is organizing a project for 
>exactly what you want: reversible suspended animation. Along the way it will
>greatly improve cryonic suspensions, particularly in good cases: the brain,
>with all its structures, would be preserved. He calls it Prometheus, and
>he can be reached at 70023,3041 on CompuserveA web site for Prometheus has
>been set up; it is: http://www.prometheus-project.org/prometheus/. Another
>way to get hold of Paul Wakfer is by the address     
>               
>
I know about the PP and PpP. I am the only french pledger ($ 2000) in the
PP. I think it may be interesting for medicine but bring very litle outside
publicity to cryonics as it is done today. (it would revolutionize all
cryonics practices and so deals with something we could as well give
another name) .For cryonics as it is understood today, I think it may be a
good first step but nearly everything will be outside it even after
completion: To bring back someone "frozen" by the PP result is one thing,
doing the same for current patients is quite another. For a long time,
there will, allas, suboptimal cryonics cases falling outside the result of
PP. For them, I think the real solution is in uploading and R-ray brain
scanning, not extensive nanotech repair.

>There has also been an increased interest in cryobiological research by
>all of the societies. The Life Extension Foundation (which basically sells
>various vitamins and drugs which may increase our lifespan) also underwrites
>not only research into therapies for aging but also research into cryonics.
>Its principals are both cryonicists, and they use some good proportion of
>their profits to support this research.
>
I know about the financial effort of S. Kent and B. Fallon. I have read too
about "very rich" cryonics-converted mans. It seems not a cent has comes
from that side for research. The Saul Kent case seems to point out to:
Discard the wealthy and turn today cryonicists into riches if you want some
positive activities. May be Mr. Kent's investment is not what would bring
him most money fast and so he is a poor manager of its funds (I take a look
from the "money industry" to be sure!).


To conclude: May be some cryonics problems are far beyond the capabilities
of biology and chemistry. The real solution is in physics and uploading. (I
have no philosophical problems about conciousness, and the like). 

                Good Life,

                Yvan Bozzonetti.

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