X-Message-Number: 8722
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 19:39:13 -0600
From: Steve Jackson <>
Subject: Re: Clouding Our Minds

Very disappointing, Fred. You misstate, minimize and seek to marginalize my
comments, instead of addressing them directly. This is not appropriate

Fred quotes me in part and replies:
>The above comments (you should read Steve's entire CryoNet post)
>reflect a minority negative response to our new option (the Alcor Life
>Membership program.)

That is a *completely* false statement, Fred. My letter expressed my
negative response to the deceptive way in which you and Michael Cloud are
using the promised roundtables as a vehicle to TELEMARKET the life
memberships. Do you understand the distinction?
>(a)  It seems to us (those signed below, who have represented Alcor on
>most or all these calls) that the vast majority of participants were
>enthusiastic about interacting with other Alcor Members, exchanging
>thoughts about what Alcor needs, and what its priorities should be.

Again, Fred, you are completely missing, or avoiding, the point, and I wish
I knew which. I thought the idea of a roundtable was very fine. That is why
I was so angry and disappointed when I found that the call was bait for a
sales pitch.

You have not addressed this point at all, Fred. Will you do me the courtesy
of rereading my original posting and *answering* the questions there?

>Most participants expressed that they *did* obtain information about
>Alcor which was helpful, including the Life Membership program.  Over
>ninety percent of those on the calls stated that they would like to
>participate in these information exchange telecons annually.

Weasel words, Fred. In fact, I too obtained some interesting information
before you started your sales pitch - are you counting me as part of your
90%? And how many of the remainder objected, not to the roundtable, but to
your surprise sales pitch? If you remember, I told you before the call was
over that I would be interested in a REAL roundtable, if I could trust you
not to make it a mask for a telemarketing effort.

Let's try this again in words of one syllable:

	If you TALK with us in good faith, to learn what we think, that is

	When you use such a call as bait to spring a slick sales pitch on
us, that is a BAD THING.

Words of one syllable. Is it clear now? Will you reply?

>(b) Unfortunately, no program will ever be favored by everyone.  We
>are sorry that one member was so offended as to write the impassioned
>posting cited above.  We do feel, however, that we need to proceed in
>accordance with the reactions of most of our members, rather than a
>discontented few.

Ahh, so one member doesn't count. You mean "We haven't alienated everyone
yet, so we'll press on?" Forgive the sarcasm, but it is disappointing that
you won't address the problem - in fact, your response misstates my
objection in a way that lets you avoid admitting what the real problem is!

>We are open to hearing from other Alcor Members who
>have participated in the phone calls, so we can better assess how the
>majority feels.

Well, you have heard from two more that I know of, just on this list. Both
independently used the word "slick" in their criticisms. And again, if you
don't get a full majority rising up and actively objecting, will you
continue? Yes or no?

>(c)  We apolgize to CryoNet readers for this taking up space on your
>forum, but that is where Steve Jackson chose to take it.

In other words, you contend that my criticism of your marketing methods was
inappropriate for this list. Why do you say that, Fred? What is more
appropriate for this list than matters of a cryonics provider's image and

Kennita Watson says:

>Backwards.  They wanted to make a sales pitch, and came up with the
>feedback idea as a forum in which to make it.

Fred, is this true? Yes or no?

Kennita also says:

>Is the image hit worth the increased membership or not?

Yes or no, Fred?

 Steve Jackson - yes, of SJ Games - yes, we won the Secret Service case
  Learn Web or die - http://www.sjgames.com/ - dinosaurs, Lego, Kahlua!
          The heck with PGP keys; finger for Geek Code. Fnord.

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