X-Message-Number: 8900
From: "den Otter" <>
Subject: Experimental subjects [Re: CryoNet #8893 - #8896]
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 18:10:14 +0100

Thomas Donaldson <> wrote:

> Secondly, NO, we should not use human beings who are not cryonicists as
> experimental subjects. Ever. First of all, to speak practically, that will go
> far towards alienating the noncryonicists and making us all look like 
> Frankensteins. To speak ideally, I have always thought that one reason we

> are NOT persecuted and prevented from doing suspensions is that we are saying,
> to EVERYONE, that immortality is for everyone. To then turn around and use
> some of those everyones as experimental animals just doesn't get the message
> out. Not only that, but it will do very bad things to our attitude toward  
> those who have not signed up as yet. 
Morally speaking, I don't really see a problem: people are donating their
bodyparts to all kinds of research, and cryonics is certainly one of the 
loftier goals in medical science. Their brains are used in the second-best
way possible. If someone doesn't want a suspension, that is very sad, but no

reason not to accept his brain for useful experiments (that will probably 
benefit 
all in the long run). I'm pretty sure you could find lot's of people who'd be
willing to donate their brain to a cryonics organization if some kind of reward
was involved (even $1000 would probably do). I do agree however, that it could
(*unduely*) hurt the public image of cryonics, because many people, and 

especially the media, are a bunch of short-sighted sensation-seeking hypocrites.
This only means these experiments would have to be done in secret, or at

least low-profile. You can't have all your eggs in the basket of "popular 
support/
benevolence" anyway, IMO. If you want to survive, that is. Public opinion can
change (negatively) at the drop of a hat, and then what?

> There is a caveat, though. If we use noncryonicists as experimental subjects
> by trying out new solutions and treatments, already thoroughly tested on 
> animals, on them, I can see it. But no one would consent to become such a
> subject unless they were cryonicists but for one reason or another didn't
> have the money. 
Exactly! I think there are plenty of people "out there" who'd like to have a 
cryonics arrangement, but can't afford it. It would be a great idea to
offer them free, or at least very cheap, suspensions. Also, it would be
a good idea to freeze lots of animals ( dogs and monkeys). When future
cryonicists think it's safe to start "reviving the frozen", they can start with
the test animals. If the results are satisfactory, they can start to thaw the
free-riders. Only when these people have successfully been restored to

(perfect) health, with no unpleasant side-effects, the third phase is initiated:
the revival of the "normal" cryonicists. 

Of course the test-cryonicists must be fully informed about their status,
and the risks involved (basically the same disclaimer as presently issued 
by cryonics organizations). Their "deal" is no worse than that of
all the present cryonicists (in fact, it's exactly the same).

DdO
*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*
                       Hodi mihi, cras tibi

*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*

Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=8900