X-Message-Number: 9042 Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:08:15 +0100 From: John de Rivaz <> Subject: Re: Trusts and Cloning In article: <> writes: > Message #9032 > From: Ettinger <> > Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:43:25 EST > Subject: lawyers donating work > > John de Rivaz recently suggested that lawyers in cryonics might donate > their time/expertise to save expense for members. But it isn't always that > simple. > (rest del) Thanks for taking time to write this article. You did say that > Cryonics Institute has several lawyer members, some of whom have in fact > donated work (both legal and otherwise), and continue to do so, (del) It would seem sensible if the membership form time to time suggest methods of raising money by trusts or otherwise that could benefit the organisation as a whole then those members of that organisation who are lawyers ought to be invited to give an opinion. The invitation could simply be that they see an idea (eg on cryonet) and think "yes that could be worthwhile". It seems to me that the best way of transferring money is to do what the life insurance companies do (in the UK at least) - keep it very simple. I have seen some of the trusts that go with life policies, and they are often a few lines on single sheet of paper. One of the biggest hurdles I see to the building of capital for cryopreservation is capital taxes, on gains and transfer. What is better - a very simple trust in a capital tax free country where the trust creator is not able to take the money back yet where it can grow hard, or a revocable trust in a taxable place of residence? The former if seeded with a small amount by a young person can by the time he is old pay for the cryopreservation of this person and some of his friends. The latter can result in a large proportion of the fund being lost to the dead hands of taxers and fee earners. Without this dead hand, it should be possible to start with a smaller sum to get the desired result. The contract I suggest is: ********** This trust is created by A and is for the sole purpose of the cryopreservation of A and anyone else he nominates until such time as the trust is exhausted. Whilst he is alive A makes (or can delegate) investment decisions but cannot withdraw money for any other purpose than stated above. Withdrawal can be for pre-payment of cryopreservation fees. (note 1) If A and everyone nominated is in suspension and trust assets remain, then they are treated as additional payment for A's cryopreservation. ********** Surely there is still some country where such a trust can be run without payment of anything other than brokerage fees on transactions and income tax on any dividend income and no requirement for trustees other than A? (Often there is a need for professional trustees that demand large fees.) If there is a large setup fee then no one will seed the trust. The idea I have is that a young person could put in say $10 a month and it would go to a technology mutual fund over years. The outgoing would not be noticed particularly yet over the years substantial funds would accumulate. If there is enough to fund more than one suspension then cores of cryonics people can build up all over the world. I know it will take a long time, and maybe advances in attitudes to cyropreservation will make such steps uneccessary But if these advances don't come, and we find ourselves 20 years further on in a similar situation to the present, we could well be grateful for the growing group of members created by such projects. Keep it small, keep it simple. note 1 If these trusts get very large (eg ten time the cost of one cryopreservation) owners may consider that their aims could be better met if the cryonics organisation has some immediate financial input. Prepayment of fees for some of the people mentioned in the trust seems a sensible way of achieving this within the concept of the trust. > From: Marty Nemko <> > Subject: Re: CryoNet #9028 - #9031 > References: <> > > A question to any of you who choose to respond: > > Does signing up for cryonic suspension make any more or less sense now > that it appears that human cloning will soon be possible? For > example,in 10-20 years, it may be possible to attach a new, young cloned > body to my head. I hope you mean growing a headless clone from your own cells. 10-20 years seems very optimistic. Also the process will be heavbily regulated, which means enormous parasitic costs. Who will be able to afford it? -- ***************************************** Sincerely, * Longevity Report * * http://www.longevb.demon.co.uk/lr.htm * John de Rivaz * Fractal Report * * http://www.longevb.demon.co.uk/fr.htm * * Music I like - see homepage * ***************************************** In the information age, sharing can increase world wealth enormously, because giving information does not decrease your information. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/JohndeR Fast loading, very few slow pictures Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=9042