X-Message-Number: 9071 Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:12:35 -0800 From: Paul Wakfer <> Subject: Re: Probability of Revival References: <> I have not read Robert Ettinger's CRYONICS: THE PROBABILITY OF RESCUE, but for the sake of argument I will completely accept whatever estimates of revival of the "corpus" of a currently frozen person are contained therein. As I have argued here and elsewhere many times, however, we do not know if we are preserving the mind (the memory and other mental faculties which constitute your mental individuality) and even worse this is *inestimable and unknowable* at present, since current neuroscience is not at a sufficient level to allow us to estimate it. (Yes, from EM analysis, etc. we may be able to estimate the chance of restoration of some particular brain structure. However, neuroscience cannot yet definitely tell us what brain structures are essential.) This is why I agree with Steve Bridge that the possibility of revival is simply unknown. But I go even further to maintain that it is not calculable, unknowable, and therefore ridiculous to discuss at the present time. We cryopreserve people or get frozen ourselves, simply to stabilize the body. Whether or not current stabilization methods are sufficient to allow reversal of the transition away from homeostasis which took place prior to stabilization and as part of the process itself, we simply do not and can not know. However, we *can* make reasonable conclusions that burial or cremation do *not* allow such a reversal. Since no other methods to avoid such clear non-reversibility are available, at the moment there is no other choice than cryonic suspension to prevent clearly irreversible changes from homeostasis. Please, let us waste no more time on this "probability of revival" nonsense. The only thing which makes any sense to spend ones thoughts and time on, besides looking out for the current patients, is deciding what is the best path to take in order to develop and implement methods of stabilization which we *know* can be reversed and to do our utmost to reach that goal. Only when we get there will it be time to concern ourselves with estimates of whether, in particular cases, the damage occurring prior to stabilization will allow full recovery. -- Paul -- Voice/Fax: 909-481-9620 Page: 800-805-2870 The Prometheus Project -- http://prometheus.morelife.org Perfected Suspended Animation for Patient Stabilization until Cures for Their Terminal Diseases are Available Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=9071