X-Message-Number: 9201 From: Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 16:54:04 EST Subject: memory With all due respect to Mike Perry (and he is due a lot), his # 9195 seems to me to be very much over-simplified. He seems to be saying, more or less, that memory or memories should be regarded as essential to survival. But this sort of criterion is at least as vulnerable as others to questions of accuracy, duplication, fidelity, continuity, etc. For one thing, suppose (as in the movie TOTAL RECALL) that false memories are somehow substituted for your real ones. The protagonist in the movie says, "If I'm not me, then who the hell am I?" If memory MAKES or defines the individual, then the protagonist was indeed "me"--meaning the person identified by those false memories. In other words, the memories were "false" only by the historical criterion, and everyone knows history is bunk. Certainly the example above is itself oversimplified; Mike did not say, and probably no one believes, that memory is the SOLE criterion of identity or survival. But if it is the main one, or even a necessary one, the problem alluded to exists. Another example of a problem shared by the memory criterion: Suppose "you" are thawed out and repaired, or reconstituted, or duplicated, or whatever--but with the memories you had at a much earlier date, not at time of freezing or whatever. Have "you" survived? It isn't good enough to shrug and say it's a matter of personal opinion or personal values, or that we can never know the "real" answer, or that there isn't any "true" answer. It is certainly possible that the final answer, when we find it, will be unpalatable, but there IS an answer. Every question, SUFFICIENTLY WELL FORMED, has an unambiguous, objective answer. (That is my "religion" at any rate.) I'm certainly not complaining about speculation--the more the better, provided it is followed by analysis and experiment. But let's remember that speculation should not be held as dogma or anything close to it. Robert Ettinger Cryonics Institute Immortalist Society http://www.cryonics.org P.S. Our site now has some material about Dandridge Cole and part of his discussion of "the mechanism of resurrection." Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=9201