X-Message-Number: 9300 From: Ettinger <> Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 21:23:13 EST Subject: Display and Scratch Here is another possible problem with emulation of a physical system by a digital computer. I don't recall having seen it mentioned before. In the prevailing view, if I understand it correctly, a physical system changes over time by taking on successive new quantum states. This just happens; there is nothing "in between" states. Every part and aspect of the system makes its contribution to the total reality; there is nothing lacking and nothing extra. In a digital computer, trying to emulate the physical system, the situation is fundamentally different--even aside from the fact that successive quantum states of the emulated system are represented by successive COLLECTIONS of classical states of the Turing computer. First, there are two main categories of numbers, which we might call "display" numbers and "scratch" numbers. The display numbers are those specifying values for the parameters of the quantum states of the emulated system. The scratch numbers are the results of intermediate calculations on "scratch paper" that are needed by the program in order to find the next display numbers. Scratch numbers correspond to nothing in the emulated system. (The program itself also corresponds to nothing in the emulated system--not even to the laws of physics, except in a very restricted sense.) Second, the display numbers themselves are of two kinds. Since I am talking about a Turing type machine, only one new display number at a time can be entered--and in fact, in the case of the ur-tape, usually only a portion of a number. So at a particular moment (from our point of view), in general, we have some display numbers for the old quantum state parameters and some for the new. The whole collection of display numbers then represents a straddle of quantum states. A straddle corresponds to nothing in the emulated system. O.K., perhaps the programmer can label those numbers and moments he wants to be "on the record," eliminating straddles and scratch. One can also claim it is permissible for an emulation to have something extra, as long as it lacks nothing--in other words, a suitable partial isomorphism. But is it really that easy? At this point we have to look at the rationale for believing that a "real" system can be constituted of mere symbols or numbers and their changes and relationships. The argument is that while a symbol by itself means little or nothing, a complex network of symbols, with well defined and orderly relationships, can be as "real" a system as the one being emulated, or as realistic as the one being studied. After all, our own brains seem to work with nothing but electromagnetic and chemical signals that are mostly just symbols at the cognitive level (leaving aside the self circuit, hormones, muscle impulses etc.), but we can use learned patterns to make inferences about the outside world. The proof of the pudding is that we also act upon the outside world, by moving our bodies etc., and the interaction holds up to analysis. This is fairly persuasive, and (digressing) it also leads into another area--rejection of the notion that you can't possibly tell if you are in an emulation, or at least a doctored emulation. If your brain is not subjected to internal interference, but someone seeks to fool it through virtual reality manipulations, you retain the potential ability to see through the deception, i.e. to detect anomalies in the alleged outside world. For example, a person emulated in a classical Turing computer (if that is indeed possible) could conduct experiments that would cast light on his situation. Deutsch has made similar remarks. …..I have forty eleven other threads to pursue and modify, and previous remarks to clarify and follow up…..and higher priorities. Have to quit--and unless my will power fails, I don't plan to return to this discussion any time soon. You're welcome. Robert Ettinger Cryonics Institute Immortalist Society http://www.cryonics.org Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=9300