X-Message-Number: 9442 From: Ettinger <> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 18:18:59 EDT Subject: Platt's Non-Citations Cns0410.98a PLATT'S NON-CITATIONS Charles Platt's #9431 refers to his "carefully itemized evidence" (!) attacking the record on CI procedures. In fact--unless I have gone blind--his MAIN and endlessly repeated accusation, that the Ukrainian sheep head work used ramped glycerine and ours did not, was supported by NO citations and NO indication of the source of this "information." We, on the other hand, have supplied specific references; and we will soon post the entire reports (freely available since November 1994) on our web site. Once more: Charles says that the procedures used by CI on humans are not the ones that were tested by us on sheep heads, and are not the ones tested on sheep heads in the Ukraine. This is DEAD WRONG. The procedure tested on sheep heads in the Ukraine was the SAME as the one we used on our sheep heads--it was DESIGNED and INTENDED to be the same; that was the PURPOSE of the independent work. The only difference in our human procedures relates to mechanics (pumps instead of syringes because of the larger size etc.). There was one pass with 75% glycerine in the perfusion phase, no ramping up. This was true with our sheep heads, with the Ukrainian sheep heads, and with our patients. The Ukrainian professional cryobiologists and electron microscopists concluded that the result is relatively good (and immensely better than with uncontrolled freezing) and that there was no cracking at all visible either to the naked eye or to the microscope. (Cracking had been a serious problem with methods used elsewhere.) The investigators were principally Dr. Yuri Pichugin of the Institute for Problems of Cryobiology and Cryomedicine at Kharkov University, and Prof. Gennadi Zhegunov, Chairman, Dept. of Biology, Kharkov Medical University. Their detailed reports were published in THE IMMORTALIST issues of August, September, and November, 1994, including a selection of photos with the light microscope and the electron microscope. (The complete set was supplied to our severest critics and to others who made the request.) Now then, Charles, one more time: Where is the citation, where is the source, where is the documentation, for your assertion that the Ukrainians used ramped-up glycerine concentrations rather than following our procedure with the sheep heads? I am sure your error was not intentional, because it exposes you to so much embarrassment, but I think you have an obligation to specify your source or explain what caused your confusion. Robert Ettinger Cryonics Institute Immortalist Society http://www.cryonics.com Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=9442