X-Message-Number: 9504 Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 02:37:45 -0400 From: Saul Kent <> Subject: To Bob Ettinger This is my response to Bob Ettinger's reply (msg #9485 ) to Mike Darwin's offer (msg #9483) to come to Michigan with Brian Wowk to provide three days of free consultation and free equipment to help the Cryonics Institute (CI) implement Mike's recommendations for improving the quality of CI's cryopreservation methods. I am responding to Bob because Mike asked me to do so. As he stated in his offer, Mike isn't going to be posting on this issue any further. I agreed to allow Mike and Brian to offer their services to CI for 3 days because I believe the proper implementation of Mike's recommendations would significantly improve CI's cryopreservation methods. I base this opinion on the results of extensive research in the 21st Century Medicine (21CM) lab, and the opinions of others including Dr. Steve Harris, and cryobiologist Greg Fahy. Bob replied that CI has been aware of Mike's recommendations for a long time, and that they've already conducted research in attempts to verify some of Mike's conclusions, but have been unable to do so. I look forward to reports on this research. Since Bob chose to give examples of past recommendations by Mike and Jerry Leaf that CI found to be "wrong", Mike asked me to give his perspective on these issues. Bob says that Jerry Leaf was "wrong" in his concerns about the quality of water used in human cases and in research. Jerry did not feel he was mistaken about this. Since Jerry was suspended in 1992, and is no longer able to defend his position, Mike asked me to refer to a recent discussion we had on the importance of water quality for the organ cryopreservation research being conducted at 21CM. The discussion included Dr. Greg Fahy, Chris Rasch (who has done extensive brain tissue culture work and viability studies at Stanford University), and Dr. Steve Harris. At issue was the utility of spending about $5,000 for equipment to remove pyrogens from water, although we already have a high purity water generation system at the lab. The decision to make this expenditure was unanimous. Chris pointed out that, at Stanford, scientists do not find their in-house distilled water good enough for their research, and that they purchase ultra pure water from outside sources. Bob also stated that Mike is "wrong" in his concerns about storing non-sterilized perfusates in the refrigerator. Mike asked me to point out that the problem of water purity and the risk of bacterial growth in per- fusates is a statistical one. Although one test may not show any bacterial growth in a perfusate, it's possible that the next one will. For years it was thought that Betadine, which is used to disinfect wounds cannot grow bacteria. Yet, a major epidemic of infections occurred from bacteria growing in a single batch of Betadine. In the vitamin business, we've found that frequent testing is necessary to deliver consistently pure products. That's why the Life Extension Foundation maintains a state-of-the-art quality control lab for frequent testing of products, and also commissions assays from independent outside labs. I think it would be fairer of Bob to state that there was (and is) a difference of opinion between him and Jerry Leaf and Mike Darwin on these issues, rather than that Jerry and Mike were "wrong". I'm disappointed that Bob chose not to accept the offer of three days consultation with Mike and Brian. Both Mike and Brian have much to offer any cryonics organization, and I'm sorry that CI will be missing out on the opportunity to avail themselves of their knowledge and talents. Mike has informed me that he doesn't think it is practical to send the equipment he offered to CI without the accompanying instruction and guidance that he and Brian would have provided If Bob had accepted his offer of consultation. However, since Bob says that CI will continue to conduct research to assess the validity of Mike's recommendations, we look forward to reports on the results of this research. ---Saul Kent, CEO 21st Century Medicine Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=9504