X-Message-Number: 952 Date: 04 Jul 92 14:06:03 EDT From: Richard Potvin <> Subject: Drexler a Deathist? Upon rereading Engines, the following paragraph struck me as something that surely everyone here has refuted and that surely Eric Drexler has changed his position on: "With or without biostasis, cell repair cannot bring immortality. Physical death, however greatly postponed, will remain inevitable for reasons rooted in the nature of the universe... To speak of "immortality" when the prospect is only long life would be to ignore the facts or to misuse words". -Engines of Creation, p.139 If anyone understands Drexlers assertion here, can they explain what the "inevitable reasons rooted in the nature of the universe" *are* that are going to kill us-- *no matter what*? What facts am I ignoring? Why can't cell repair bring immortality? Isn't everything we're thinking about here motivated by the "prospect of immortality"? How can Drexler say that true, hard core immortality is impossible, with such assurance? Wouldn't a little more uncertainty be in order? I realize "atom repair" might seem rediculous in the face of atomic decay-- or that heat death or a collapsing closed universe are serious potential show-stoppers, but this one paragraph alone, for me, personally, makes nanotech and mastery of the universe into nothing more than a much bigger game of Trivial Pursuit. I posit that here's nothing *less* than the infinite life of each of us and the infinite existence of *some* universe for us to exist within-- at STAKE here. To think of anything LESS being at stake than our Permanent and Perpetual Physical Presence is unjustified, I believe, -- but more seriously, devalues our present efforts and saps motivation-- however slight. Certainly Perpetual Presence is *desired* by Eric Drexler, and I hope that in the next edition of Engines, he expresses that desire in the same paragraph that he states that "physical death, however greatly postponed, will remain inevitable": "Physical immortality, however unacheivable, will remain desirable". -Richard Potvin, A-1348 Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=952