X-Message-Number: 9819 Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 23:37:03 -0400 From: "Stephen W. Bridge" <> Subject: Alcor Suspension Fees To CryoNet From Steve Bridge, Chairman Alcor Life Extension Foundation Board of Directors May 30, 1998 Since it's the weekend and Alcor President Fred Chamberlain probably won't see the CryoNet traffic for a couple of days, I'll try to answer the Alcor policy questions. Jim Yount, Bob Ettinger, and Charles Platt have covered well the questions about why cryonics companies cannot *guarantee* that they will never raise their minimums. I will add some Alcor notes. -- Like the others, our contract states that we cannot guarantee that the suspension minimums will never be raised. I should point out to newer CryoNet readers that "suspension minimums" are the levels of minimally acceptable funding that each organization will accept for each available procedure. For instance, CI (Ettinger's group) requires $28,000 to be available at time of death. Alcor requires $50,000 for neuropreservation and $120,000 for whole body preservation. We won't do the suspensions with LESS than that amount guaranteed. ALL organizations suggest that you provide funding ABOVE the minimum amount. You never know what changes might occur to raise minimums *before* you are frozen, so that extra helps cover you. For instance, I have chosen neurosuspension but have purchased a $100,000 insurance policy to provide margin for the future. Why go to all this trouble for decades but risk your future by funding your suspension at the lowest possible level? In addition, the more funds your organization has *while* you are frozen, the more secure that organization will be in inevitable times of trouble. Bob has acknowledged that it is really the overfunded CI members in suspension which have put CI in the solid financial shape they appear to be. Alcor has benefitted greatly from at least one member in suspension, Richard Clair Jones, who left us a large additional donation. So far, Alcor has "grandfathered in" members with smaller suspension minimums when we raised minimums for new members joining after a certain date. So we have a very few members with official minimums of $35,000 for neuro and quite a few with minimums of $41,000. Thankfully, many of them have actual funding of $50,000 and up. We felt that long-term members had helped Alcor in many other ways by being involved in early suspensions and administration and by paying dues all those years to keep us afloat. If we can afford to do so, we really want to hold the line on them. The attitude of some people that "I don't want my suspension organization to get any more of my money than they absolutely need" mystifies me. People want the best suspensions; but they don't want their organizations to pay living wages to the employees and they don't want to pay for research to make the suspensions better. They are willing to trust their suspension organizations to freeze them and take care of their *brains* and bodies for decades or centuries, but they aren't willing to trust that same organization with extra money. They want and expect these organizations to repair, revive, and rehabilitate them in the future; but they don't want *their* money to help with that. What good is your money if you don't make it into -- and eventually get out of -- cryonic suspension? -- Ettinger in #9803 says >(3) CI DOES formally guarantee that there will be no price increases for >those members who pre-pay their suspension fees. We believe this is sound, >in overall context, because CI is earning money on the invested sums while >the member is still alive, as well as for the aforementioned reasons. Alcor's policy is the same for prepayment and for the same reasons. -- Alcor's current minimums are actually based on months of research on both current costs and future expectations. So far, I don't see a reason to believe that Alcor will have to raise even its minimums for newly added members any time soon. Right now, storage costs per patient are going down every couple of years (due to better technology and better tracking of costs, in addition to the simple fact that patient storage is the part of cryonics most able to take advantage of economies of scale), which may balance the rising costs of the medically-oriented "up front" procedures. In addition, our Patient Care Trust investments have done so well during the past four years good economy and stock market that income right now is double our costs (that won't last forever, of course -- bad times will come again). As long as storage cots continue to drop, it is possible that we could lower the amount that goes into the Patient Care Trust in order to pay for somewhat higher up front costs. However, a major jump in technology might indeed require an increase in the minimum funding required. At that time, Alcor will have to decide if we will limit patients to the one, high-price, high-tech procedure or offer one or more lower-cost alternatives, as Bob Ettinger proposed CI might do: >Of course, this guarantee only reflects current methodology. If more >complicated and more expensive preparation methods are adopted in the future, the use of THOSE methods will not be included in the guarantee; >but we will still (if necessary) prepare the patient by the older methods >at the guaranteed price. (In fact, eventually we may have a range of >options, some of them even cheaper than current procedures.) This brings up a moral question, though, which will be hard to evaluate: we don't want to offer cheaper procedures which offer no preservation of memory and identity. I can guarantee that we will not offer *cremation*, for instance. But are there procedures being used in cryonics today that are the practical equivalent of cremation? We don't know right now; but that will be a BIG debate in the future. In Message #9805, Henry R. Hirsch <> asks: >But what about maintenance and the cost of reanimation? The same argument >applies with respect to inflation, except that now I am "dead" and can't >come up with any more money. I, and perhaps others, would be interested >to learn how Cryonics Institute, Alcor, Cryocare, and Transtime handle >this problem. Well, Hank, after reading CryoNet for a couple of years, you may not be surprised to learn that "opinions differ" on that one, even within organizations. Personally, I think our funding in Alcor's Patient Care Trust is well protected. It is certainly earning well above our costs right now. Alcor has some $1,600,000 in Trust assets (sorry, exact figures are not in front of me), including the patient dewars and equipment, and some ownership position in the building which houses the patients. In the general neighborhood of $600,000 is invested through Smith-Barney in stocks and bonds, by at least five different strategies. All have done VERY well the past couple of years. Another $600,000 or so is the mortgage on the building Alcor's patients are in. Renters, including Alcor and four other tenants, pay rent to the ownership company (a Limited Liability Company of Alcor members and Alcor itself), which makes mortgage payments to the Trust. The mortgage interest alone more than pays for the costs of keeping the patients in suspension, allowing the other investments to grow untouched. This is likely to continue for several more years at least. I think that this investment growth, plus the inevitable overfunding that some members will provide to Patient Care in the event of their suspensions, may well provide enough earnings in a couple of decades to fund significant research in reanimation, PLUS end up with enough funding to handle the costs of repair, revival, and rehabilitation. Compound interest alone can greatly swell an account given enough time, and we are doing much better than that. In any case, we are not going to go after your estate or your relatives for more money in the future. Your cryonics provider will be stuck with whatever amount of money you give them. I think it is prudent to make sure they are stuck with *more*, rather than less. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- In Message #9806, B. F. Shelton <> asks: Subject: Fee Increases to Current Members >For those who have the cash, it would seem prudent to keep the guaranteed >funds invested with accumulation of returns to meet or beat inflation. >If the company is paid up front, of course, it could do this, and relieve >the individual member/customer of such worries. Is this how some >companies currently handle funds from people who pay the entire >cryopreservation fee upfront (hopefully they don't just spend it!)? Prepaid suspension fees at Alcor are placed in a federally insured account (usually CDs) and may not be touched, except for a tiny service fee, for any reason until the member goes into suspension. (And we have never even bothered to claim the service fee on our prepaid accounts). This is in Alcor's Bylaws. The money MUST be available when the suspension occurs. I would not trust a cryonics company if it did not have similar restrictions. Steve Bridge Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=9819