X-Message-Number: 9879 From: "Scott Badger" <> Subject: Re: CryoNet #9877 - #9878 Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 07:57:40 -0500 Wlll Dye wrote: >Scott, did you think that the [Boston Globe] article was unfair, or that it might >discourage someone from signing up? Maybe I'm too lighthearted, but >I really didn't see anything offensive in it. I objected to the shoddy reporting. I know he was trying to be cute with his (at least mildly) derogatory remarks, but his facts and figures were just plain wrong. And yes, I think the article pretty much reinforces the current default meme regarding cryonics and consequently probably did little to serve our interests. On the other hand, one could argue the other side of this by pointing at the favorable poll results. Anyway, Derek Strong wrote a pretty good letter (better than mine in which I briefly asked the reporter to please investigate a story before printing so many inaccuracies). I hope Derek doesn't mind if I repost his letter here from the extropian list. ************************************ Dear Mr. Beam, Thank you for bringing the subject of cryonics back to the pages of the Boston Globe. Yours is a highly respected newspaper, and cryonics is indeed a newsworthy topic. Having followed the field for most of a decade, I have seen literally hundreds of news reports in all forms of media. Unfortunately, your article, despite its brevity, fits neatly into the categories of "most error-filled" and "least researched". Although yours is not the first to gain such distinction, I do find it mildly disappointing, because unlike most journalists in the past, you seem to have gotten your information via the internet (the best, easiest to use research tool that has ever existed). I appreciate that you might have been tailoring the piece for the "Living | Arts" section rather than the "Health | Science" section, looking to entertain as much as to educate. But errors are errors, and I feel pretty confident you could have avoided many of them simply by spending just a few more moments actually reading the pages you cited and following the links, rather than simply looking for points to criticize and ridicule. If you are interested in getting the details right, below I offer some quotes from your piece, along with comments of my own that I hope will be helpful. "He hopes that scientists will discover a way to revive human life from frozen tissue before the Apocalypse, or before his yearly payments to Arizona-based Alcor Life Extension Foundation run out." Yearly payments to Alcor will not "run out". I'm not sure how closely you looked at Alcor's funding requirements, but yearly dues ($360) are paid only while the member is alive. At the time of suspension, a one-time, lump sum of $50,000 (for Neurosuspension) or $120,000 (for Whole Body) must be paid to Alcor. Part of this pays for the initial suspension procedure. The rest (the majority) is invested, with the interest paying the ongoing costs of low temperature storage. The lump sum is usually provided via life insurance, which is cheap and affordable for most folks. What this means is that dues and life insurance premiums are paid to make and maintain suspension arrangements. But after suspension, there are no further costs to the individual, his family, or his estate. In my case, the total cost for my life insurance and dues amounts to $70/month. "1. They are all nerds." "2. Twenty-five of the 26 are men." "3. Most of them, with the exception of Cambridge's own Marvin Minsky, live in California." For starters, point #2 here is just wrong. Kennita Watson is indeed female, but so are Ailing Freeman, Terry Stanley, and Chris Peterson. That's 4 out of 26, not 1 out of 26. (Did you even follow those links? Or did you just look at the names?) But more importantly, using Ralph Merkle's listing as your data sample is a pretty skewed, unscientific method of data gathering about cryonicists. There are approximately 700 cryonicists who have made arrangements to be suspended. Predictably, Ralph's list contains mostly close friends and colleagues of his, and of course, he could only link to people who actually have web pages. This explains why they're all nerds, and why almost all of them live in California. If you're interested in the actual data, the numbers really look like this: A loose usage of the word "nerd" might apply to 70% of cryonicists. The other 30% certainly have to have at least some respect for science and technology, but they're not nerds. Females represent approximately 33% of our total these days, and that figure has risen steadily over the years. Certainly we males would like it to be more like 50% (or 90%!), but the real picture isn't nearly so grim as you've painted it. Californians represent approximately 33% of cryonicists. The rest are scattered throughout the states, with additional concentrations in New York, Florida, and Arizona. "As with everything, it pays to shop around. Wilmington, Del.-based CryoSpan claims to flash-freeze ''humans and their companion animals at the lowest possible price,'' which turns out to be an annual $250 for ''neuro'' (brain only) or $1,500 for the full monty." CryoSpan's fees are one-time lump sum payments of $58,500 for Neurosuspension, $125,000 for Whole Body Suspension, same as with Alcor. The "yearly fee" of $250 for Neuro or $1500 for Whole Body represents the ongoing costs of long-term storage. These are not separate charges. They are paid via interest accumulation from investment of the initial lump sum. Looking at CryoSpan's page on the web (http://www.cryocare.org/cryospan/cryospan.html), I see that this distinction is not made perfectly clear. Nevertheless, what you printed is wrong, or misleading at the very least. "The only woman who may be available for soulful chats at sunset is Kennita Watson, a Libertarian activist who has run for statewide office several times in California." This is wrong for the same reasons listed above. Even if you only took Merkle's sample of 26, there are 3 others. Your usage of the word "may" hardly excuses making the world think that Kennita is the only female cryonicist. There are *hundreds* of signed-up females, with more on the periphery, in the process of making arrangements. Again, I do appreciate that you were trying to write an interesting, light-hearted piece about the strangeness we Californians indulge ourselves in, and had you stuck to your take on things, I would have no problem with even a severe hatchet job (which your article certainly was not). But many readers will be left with very wrong impressions about cryonics that the facts simply do not support, taking your word as a journalist, and believing that you have done your research properly. Revile us or ridicule us all you like. We know this isn't for everyone, we have a sense of humor, and we can take a good ribbing. But please get the facts straight while you're doing it. A printed correction would seem to be in order here. Sincerely, Derek Strong aka Derek Ryan -- or -- *************************************** I have serious doubts that a printed correction is forthcoming, but thanks Derek. Best to all, S.B. Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=9879