X-Message-Number: 29130 References: <> From: Kennita Watson <> Subject: Re: [CN] Cryonics Q&A in FDGD Program Book Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 03:39:34 -0800 On Feb 13, 2007, at 2:00 AM, CryoNet wrote: > Message #29124 > From: "t.theodorus ibrahim" <> > Subject: Re: [CN] Cryonics Q&A in FDGD Program Book > Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2007 17:06:06 -0000 > > Gareth Nelson, being a fellow Brit, might tend to understate things > - so let > me repeat his suggestion and add to it a little bit, as it's a very > good > one. > > Not only does Kennita's physical inclusion in the FDGD circus imply > endorsement by mainstream cryonics (or at least, toleration), In point of fact, "mainstream cryonics" can't endorse anything; there are, however, some mainstream cryonicists who do endorse the FDGD, and, this being a free country, we all tolerate it. We could picket, but we would look like humorless, fanatical fools, like the evangelists who picket Mardi Gras: http://www.tulane.edu/~vmayer/ALTMAG/marchaltmag/dixon1.htm . (Skip to the last few sentences for the message I'm trying to get across.) > it actually > goes some way towards legitimising the charlatans behind it and > their cargo > cult version of therapeutic human cryopreservation. Charlatans? No. Cargo cult? No. The FDGD festival doesn't need legitimizing; it's a perfectly legitimate have-fun-at-the- end-of-winter festival. I'm quite clear that the organizing committee does *not* consider Grandpa Bredo a credible example of therapeutic human cryopreservation. Certainly they go to lengths to make the entire spectacle incredible. Anyone who might have thought it credible before I arrived has been disabused of that notion. In any case, none of them is or ever has been involved in Grandpa's preservation -- Trygve still bankrolls the dry ice (from Norway). He admits that what is left will be sufficient DNA to produce a clone, not the original Grandpa Bredo. This is made clear in the interview with him on the FDGD home page -- there is no charlatanism going on here. Neither Trygve nor anyone else that I know of suggests that dry ice is a desirable preservation medium. That, and I spend all weekend pointing it out to anyone who asks. > > So here's my suggestion for the text that could be put in the Q&A > section - > a polite but firm attack on everything the Grandpa Bredo people do and > represent and a clear distancing between their tomfoolery and the real > medical technology of cryonics. You apparently know little or nothing about the Frozen Dead Guy Days, the spirit behind them, or my participation in them. Yes, there is tomfoolery, but it's clearly recognized as such. If we as lovers of life can't see the joke, we come off mostly as humorless prigs (IMHO). I for one would love to participate in the Frozen Turkey Bowl or the Frozen T-Shirt Contest, but I'll be telling people about real cryonics during that time. I think I'll make a lot more friends and a much greater impression with my approach than with the "firm but gentle attack". Besides, if I were hostile, I wouldn't be invited to participate the Frozen Dead Guy Days would continue to happen with its worldwide coverage -- *without* anyone to inject the reality of real cryonics, and the thousands who attend and who read about the event would have no opportunity to see what's actually possible. In any case, I found out with not much time to go that I would have a little more room, so I expanded my entry a bit. I think I improved the flow, put in some gentle distancing, and got the reading level down to grade 10.1 and the readability up to 47.1 -- that'll have to do. Live long and prosper, Kennita -- text follows -- Q: What is cryonics and why do I care? A: Cryonics is an experimental technology that seeks to preserve human life at temperatures below -150 degrees Celsius (-238 degrees Fahrenheit). This is cold enough to completely stop biological decay. By contrast, Grandpa Bredo is stored in dry ice at only about -80 degrees C (-110 degrees F). Decay slows at that temperature, but does not stop. Grandpa hasn't always been even that cold, so we fear that he is indeed a frozen dead guy by now. However, with today's cryonics we can save many who would have been lost. Q: Why do you think you'll be able to save dead people? A: Cryonics patients must be declared legally dead before they are quickly cryopreserved. However, legally dead and truly dead are not the same things. For example, using CPR to revive persons once considered dead is now routine. The goal of cryonics is to suspend patients after legal death but before irreversible clinical death. They remain in that state until medical technology can restore them to full health. In the future, nanotechnology will be able to do this by healing damage at the cellular and molecular levels. Q: How many people have done cryonics and where are they? A: More than 150 people and dozens of pets have been cryopreserved since the first case in 1967. More than 1500 people worldwide have made legal and financial arrangements for cryonics. Most often, payment is by life insurance policy. One of three organizations that preserve and store patients today is Alcor Life Extension Foundation (www.alcor.org, 1-800-GO-ALCOR) in Scottsdale, Arizona. The second is Cryonics Institute (www.cryonics.org, 1-586-791-5961) in Clinton Township, Michigan. The third is the newly formed KrioRus (http:// www.kriorus.ru/english.html, +7-905-768-04-57) near Moscow, Russia. Visit those sites and/or www.gocryo.org to find out more. Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=29130